I can't believe this discussion. The truth is right in front of your eyes, Yamil Luciano et al. It's certainly been ably defended. I only wish God would open your eyes to see it.
No matter how badly Arminians and Pelagians twist John 3:16 into an unrecognizable pretzel, it always resumes its God-given shape.
I dropped out of the Christian Nation myth of America a good while back, now. As much as I respect Dr. Ian Paisley, I don't believe God blessed America because of America's supposed righteousness. Best I can tell, we were founded as a secular nation with secular government for mostly secular purposes. One Nation 'Under God' (birthdate 1954) and 'In God We Trust' on currency (birthdate 1957) indeed. Some will say, better late than never. But I think a lot of Americans take refuge in this so-called "Judeo-Christian" religiosity without ever knowing Jesus Christ as Lord. Sad to say.
I only wish the "Christian Nation" myth were true! I thank God for the true Christians who did come here and labor for the faith in this land. And I thank God that election and salvation isn't up to us, that Salvation is of the Lord (Jonah 2:9), or none of us would ever be saved.
Dan: Thanks. Because of you, the "benefit of the doubt" lasted less than a single day. On the plus side, I no longer feel so bad not being part of the 30,000,000 supposed evangelicals that make up the NAE.
Which reminds me, liberals have claimed to be fighting for "gender equality" (whatever that is), but I secretly suspect that only a rebellious inversion of the natural order will ever fully satisfy the liberal agenda.
What will this country look like as a social collective under matriarchy?
I have a slightly different take on that issue. I believe all of this is under the Lord's sovereign control (this is not to excuse or condone evil, please understand). Doing the right thing can be done one family at a time. In fact, it must be. And I suppose it is reasonable to expect that only Christians for the most part will be obedient to Biblical commands in this area. So, other than my preference for focusing the issue on individual Christian families who are called to obey the Scripture, I certainly echo the rest of your sentiments. However, I have never been married, so in this case it's easy to "talk the talk."
As a society, we are in terrible need of the return of Biblical Patriarchy, with Godly men leading their households and Godly women fulfilling the call to virtue in Proverbs 31.
Not even trying to address all of your other false accusations, Freewiller, but it simply isn't the case that John Calvin is the historical founder of either Calvinism or Amillenialism. And that is true whether or not you are a proponent of either. Some try to tag that honor on Augustine, which is debatable, but its a position that can at least be taken more seriously. John Calvin is not the founder of Calvinism. Get that into your head, please.
I really should keep up with this issue more. I just wish lasting peace for Ireland. But without heavily qualifying the word "peace" and attaching disclaimers, I suppose that will not happen until Christ returns.
At the present time I'm more interested in asking how others voted. I voted for the first category, in the interest of full disclosure. The topic here got derailed (and unfortunately, I contributed to its misdirection).
Should only the first category be honored with the adjective "Biblical"? I'm sure sincere believers in each system would each claim that adjective for their own theological system of belief. Of course, it doesn't bother me in the slightest to inform people that only the category "Calvinism" deserves the adjective "Biblical".
A life lived long enough usually gives obvious evidence to the election of a saint, or the reprobation of an unbeliever. What amazes me is that people think that based upon our soteriological system that we somehow have a need to know or determine what has already been predestined according to the goodness and wisdom of God. Like Spurgeon, sometimes I wish the elect were born into the world complete with a yellow stripe running down the back, which would greatly simplify the process of evangelism and witness and make it much more personally convenient. But, since God in His wisdom chose not to, we witness to all the gospel of Jesus Christ who died for sinners and rose from the tomb to give eternal life to as many who will believe on Him. We pray fervent prayers for salvation. And we rejoice when God brings the prodigal sinner home and turns him or her into one of His saints.
11/9/06 1:12 AM
11/9/06 1:11 AM
