I have to say that regardless if you were a Christian, you are to defend yourself. Yes Jesus said to basically allow someone to harm you but He never did say anything about shying away from helping others in their distress. The intention of God has been to preserve life. Would you rather stand idly by and let the guy shoot everyone up or actually do something. Its just like what Jesus said about the Sabbath. They complained that He healed on the Sabbath yet they would strain and do work to save a donkey from being in a pit. So are we to preserve life or allow the Commands of Jesus to destroy life?
Oh yeah i listen to sermons when i am in my truck and when i work out in the gym. I hardly ever use the radio anymore. I have this samsung MP3 player. I bought it so i would have something to listen to while i was deployed. Its full of sermons now...
And Jim, what made you such a person to be considered worthy of salvation? What makes you even worthy today to be considered by God? What do you offer to God? Paul even said that he was the worst of all sinners. He persecuted the church and murdered maybe as many or more than he did. Thats not the issue. Seriously, read your Bible. Tell me what you have to say? Go ahead and back up your ungodly view with scripture
yeah i mean, who is ever going to have a case against God as to why they werent chosen to be saved? were they innocent or deserving of mercy? nope, and neither am i, but it was given to me and thats why i rejoice!
Actually yamil, Jesus did say that only a few are called for salvation. The whole gate is narrow that leads to life and only a few find it. And also in matthew 22:14 how it says many are called but few are chosen. dont be so condescending in your text.
That is great, dont listen to men. Lets all listen to God and see how far apart we go from each other... There is nothing wrong with listening to other people as far as learning and things of that nature. If a man is a man of God then he should know the truth. If that is the case then you should be able to listen to them. Why dont you set us up straight...
The debate should come to terms at this point. Does God just know who will automatically come and those who will deny God's voice and be disobdedient or does He actually choose who will come. The scripture also says that He subjects us all do disobedience so that mercy might be shown. That kind of puts a cramp in the whole free will aspect of it but is great for showing that we are in bondage.
But you can use Ephesians 1: 4For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— and possibly Romans 8 28And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. 29For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. Now it says in Ephesians that He predestined us and in Romans its says he foreknew. Now we seem to have what might be a difficult fork in the road that seems to seperate Calvinists and Arminians. Did He predestine us or did He already know who would come to Christ. Well if He predestined us then it would be Obvious that He foreknew who would come to Christ. But we cant say that the statement of "He foreknew who would come" and have that be final for we still have the whole "predestined" aspect of it. Now what i feel would be the appropriate way to understand this is to understand prophecy. Obviously God is not caught in linear time. He knows what is going to happen and predestines and sends things and tells us before it happens.
If that is the case then one side is obviously deceived and the other must be right. If someone is deceived then they dont have the truth in them. Remember Jesus said that if my word dwells in you and you dwell in me then you will know the truth and the truth will set you free. I never said God was double minded but we have a whole lot of Christians in here that cant agree on anything and there is supposed to be wisdom. If you truly know God then how is it that you cant come to an agreement on Him? I think that is the million dollar question. And with the whole typing thing, its a generalization. God rose Pharoah and hardened His heart for God's glory. Now are you saying that Pharoah would be innocent since he was used in a way that wouldnt be wished upon?
That sounds like it is works by salvation. God enables one to believe when he is in darkness and others he chooses not to enlighten. Its pretty clear in Romans 9. Although it is the will of God that all men would be saved by Christ you know it wont happen. There is a difference though in the wills of God. God desires peace and love and kindness from all. It is the will of God for those things yet they dont happen. But the will of God for what is going on right now, like me typing this, its happening so its the will of God. It just sounds like you are saying that God is waiting on people to believe and those that dont go to hell. Again that is wrong cause we cant make the decision to believe.
Just a real quick interruption. What does this have to do with Church Gov't? I have seen more arguments about Calvanism and Armenianism than anything else. We are on the right path though because if we need to know what is right and wrong before we can know how to run a church.
I think there is something interesting here. If anyone had ever read Augustine's Confessions you would read that a friend of his was baptized on his death bed while in a coma or something. Well when the guy woke up he was a changed man and had started to live for Christ and if my memory serves me correctly he had been healed. Now we all hold Augustine as a great theologian. Now we also believe that baptising is merely a ritual, but in the case of Augustines day it apparently had more of an effect than we think. We would think such a thing today as being heresy. Now i say you should learn what heresy and learn what is what. Your understanding doesnt mean squat! When i was deployed i was hit with such attacks on the different teachings that it nearly caused me to walk away from it all. I prayed to God for Him to remove my oppinions and understandings and to have truth in my mind and heart. Things changed and somethings were strengthened. As long as you rely on following of other theologians or relying on your own understanding you will never get anywhere. Any man can study scripture but the difference between that man and a real Christian is like the difference between a slave and the son. One will inherit yet the other will be left out. Figure it out.
I would say that is a good point. However, of all the great and many Theologians not a single one of them were right on when they described the Bible in their teachings. Even Spurgeon who was considered to be the greatest since Paul was not 100% correct. Not all of Calvinism is correct yet if you are searching through the theology books instead of the Bible for truth you will be misled.
One must be reborn of course we said that already. we were first born of man and the sin of adam was passed on through the fathers. Now we must be reborn into the family or kingdom of God and with this new birth in the Spirit or of the Spirit we will have God as our father. The regeneration process is apparent as we daily put off the sin nature and become more like our Father in heaven.
yeah i know that i am more tempted when i see a woman wearing a skirt. i like leg, so its a struggle. how much skin they show and how tight it is, thats the issue. just the appearance of what women wear as sexy, thats the issue too...
i missed the verse that says skirts over pants for women... Women are to dress modestly so that they wont tempt their brethren. Women know what they are doing when they wear the clothes that they wear. The whole skirt over pants thing is cultural and has no other basis for consideration other than though...
Ok,i didnt know that at all. I do have an NIV Study Bible by Zondervan. I really havent used it until recently. But its still the Bible to me. Want to know whats always fun? After Church services when we go out to eat, (on tuesdays we have services at night). Talking about how Joyce Meyer and Rick Warren and other people are incorrect, its great to get into those arguments and for them to learn that the things they teach is wrong. Spread the word
Yeah you set me up pretty good for that. If you want the link it is www.myspace.com/bodyjc And John you are right, as long as the Glory of God is the priority, nothing is wrong with the big church. But remember it is especially easy to blurr the lines of what exactly the message is... Be careful with what you preach, research it and be discerning. Besides the problem of sin in the NA Church, i say the problem that is greatest is discernment.
I am curious, what is wrong with Zondervan? Anyway, iam glad i am not the only one that disagrees with Rick Warren. The man believes in the unconditional acceptance where you can do whatever you want and still be saved. He also says to have good self esteem. I dont think that God ever said to rely on your own strength to do anything. I believe we need to be a church that is a little more humble.
5/1/07 8:09 AM
1/4/07 6:00 PM
