DefenderofTruth wrote:
A person's understanding doctrine will not justify him in the day of Christ Jesus. It is trust in the finished work of Jesus Christ, alone, that will save us.

But doesn't it matter what we believe about Christ and His teachings?

Can you separate Christ from His teachings?

Many say they believe in the finished work of Christ but have no repentance and continue on in their sin, what would you say to them? Should we warn them and show them the teaching of Scripture on this matter?

Michael wrote, "In some Satan sabotages the work of the Spirit making sinners imagine they're elect"

DefenderofTruth wrote:
God is not going to judge the person on how well he/she understood their theology.

DefenderofTruth wrote:
I agree . .doctrine is important. Then talk to the lost about man's depravity, Christ's Sinlessness, His Diety, His Humanity, the necessity of God's grace, the necessity of our faith, the atoning work of Christ, His bodily resurrection, His bodily ascension, His intercession for us, and His second coming.

DefenderofTruth wrote:
In difficult doctrinal matters, may we have gracious attitudes and humble hearts, desiring most of all to please Him who has called us to serve Him in the body of Christ. Discussion -YES! Disagreements -YES! Division - NO!
... taken from a booklet on Calvinism and Arminianism and the word of God, by Chuck Smith a pastor at Calvary Chapel in Costa Mesa, Ca.

DefenderofTruth wrote:
Our theology will not save us. Jesus saves us, and He calls on us to "look to Him the author and finisher of our faith."

DJC49 wrote:
Just curious as to what others think ...
Of the 4 translations of 2 Tim 3:16 given below, which one do you think is the most powerful and most God-exalting?
a) All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;
b) All Scripture is God‑breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
c) All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
d) All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
I choose (b)
How's about you?

Michael Hranek wrote:
Like I've posted before it seems some don't really believe in total derpavity but in total inability

You wrote, “there is nothing a sinner might do to be saved or loved by God if he is not predestinated”

Does God know who are His from the foundation of the world?

Is God waiting and wandering who will repent and believe His Gospel?

JD wrote:
This suggest to me that a perishing man can repent

Mike wrote:
]
He is responsible if he is able to obey.

JD wrote:
Their camplaint was that street preachers and pulpiteers were not preaching repentance from sin (as if a lost man can repent).

God created Adam upright in that he was right and innocent before God, he was given knowledge, understanding and was righteous and holy with no sin in him. Adam fell by sinning greatly against a Holy and Good God and we all fell in Adam! ‘He lost all his excellent gifts which he had received from God’. Therefore “… by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned”(Rom 5:12). We are shapen in iniquity and conceived in sin. We are dead in trespasses and sins.

So if God commands all men to repent and believe the Gospel is it God’s fault that in themselves they cannot repent and believe? MAN IS RESPONSIBLE FOR HIS SIN AND IS ALSO RESPONSIBLE TO OBEY and LOVE GOD even though he can't without God granting him faith and repentance.

Michael Hranek wrote:
is that some insist that salvation is by total absolute unconditional predestination(requiring no repentance nor faith, claiming the oblivious sinner is made spiritually alive "saved/born again" without even knowing anything about it and certainly without any involvement in the matter) and therefore any repentance or faith a lost sinner exercises they would claim is a false works DIY salvation.

Michael Hranek wrote:
...bieng made alive spiritually before and apart from repentance and faith NOW tell people that they need to repent. WHY???

btw regeneration is the cause of repentance and faith.

JD wrote:
Now, please, all calvinists. Do not weary us with the responsibility of our own repentance.

DJC49 wrote:
That's a silly statement nicely illustrated by [URL=http://jilldenton.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/cart-before-horse-2.jpg]]]THIS CARTOON.[/URL]

Uk man wrote:
One major problem is tell a sinner God loves them and they reply 'I know'. Even Apostate Homosexual UK vicars tell all and sundary God loves them.
Unless we know what SIN is we will not begin to believe we are THE 'sinner' in need of THE Christ and of course without the work of THE Holy Ghost we will not be convicted to repent and believe THE gospel.
Who is God? What of His attributes-especially His holiness? 'Sinners in the hand of an angry God' is not the street preaching on most corners. Real God ordered preaching leads to Holy Ghost conviction not just repeating a prayer ..there is an infinite difference. Think! What does 'All have sinned and come short of the glory of God' mean to the average man on the street, when he has as much knowledge of God as a dead dog and as much understanding of the word 'sin' as he has when he uses the term 'wicked, man' to mean 'good'.
It is always the truly convicted sinner who hears personally 'God so loved' and believes, so the emphasis is Christ and Him crucified and WHY?
What sort of gospel preaching has no explanation of SIN. Go stand and listen-you will hear the words SIN and SINNER, but no expalnation of what such terms mean...

DJC49 wrote:
I'm sooooo glad that you put "God loves you" within quotation marks.
With all the misconceptions of what real LOVE is today; with all the cheap variations and connotations that the word "love" has these days; with all the casualness with which the word "love" is so easily tossed around, it becomes a dangerous proposition to tell unregenerate sinners that "God loves you."
But ...
Tell them about the CROSS ... and THERE you have the greatest manifestation of what REAL LOVE is so that the carrier of the gospel does NOT have to tell the sinner in so many words that "God loves you!" If they can't understand the CROSS, it does little to tell them about "L-O-V-E."
The Beatles were wrong. It's NOT "all you need is love," it's all you need is Jesus Christ and Him crucified and resurrected according to the Scriptures!

Michael Hranek wrote:
Hmmm, Interesting posts. Have I hit a nerve?

Michael wrote, “To be honest with you in what I wrote I do have to consider some calling themselves "Calvinists" who are so adament that God hates sinners and has predestinated everyone but the "Totally Irresistably Predestinated Elect" only to be hated and damned by Him.”

Well I think your problem is with God as it is Him who has chosen His people before the foundation of the world. (Eph 1:45, Rom 9:11-13, 2Ti 1:9)

DefenderofTruth wrote:
Again, it is unthinkable that a Christian would not have love for sinners. Love is what defines the Christian.

And I responded "I understand that" which made it appear that I do not have to love my enemies. I thought JD meant that sentimental kind of love. I am sorry for the misunderstanding.

Hi DJC49, I think you are absolutely right that the “very ‘religious’ people” Michael is referring to is the black-hearted
Calvinists.

Mike wrote, "Only if you wish to hide God's motive for sending his Son to die for us while we were yet sinners."

Written to the saints, the beloved of God in Rome,

To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
(Rom 1:7)

DefenderofTruth wrote:
As believers, we have been chosen, adopted into the family of God. Words can not convey this Truth perfectly. But, suffice it to say, our adoption means God loved us.
Now, to the one who has been born of God, the love of God has been "shed abroad in his heart." It is unthinkable that the child of God would not have love - not the sentimental kind defined by the world, but the love that is defined in the Word of God - patient, kind, long-suffering, not easily provoked, not rejoicing in evil, but rejoicing in the Truth. Thus, one who is born of God, would speak the Truth of the Word of God from a heart filled with Love put there by His Lord at regeneration - much like the beggar who has found bread tells another beggar where to find bread.
Again, it is unthinkable that a Christian would not have love for sinners. Love is what defines the Christian.

JD wrote:
We are to proclaim the message of salvation even to our enemies which means we do not have to have love for them.

I was replying to Michael regarding his comment!

JD wrote, "Grace, mercy, and peace, Paul usually said)."

Yes, Paul wrote this to his sons in the faith.

Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.
(1Ti 1:2)

To Timothy, my dearly beloved son: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.
(2Ti 1:2)

To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.
(Tit 1:4)

DefenderofTruth wrote "If therefore, God calls us to love sinners, does He violate His own command? Of course not!"