prince charles wrote:I am praying that God will allow me the honor of using it starting this year...
The Lord will be with thee....Amen!
p.s. The passage in Rev 6 does need to be communicated to every soul. It is a great grace of God that he revealed just how dark and terrible for the rebels will be the second coming of The King. No doubt many have been convinced of sin and judgment through verses like these, and been born again, repented and believed. All the saints of course on that day will be lifting up their heads in anticipation of their final destination.
John UK wrote:Charles, I thought you might like this excellent article on making use of creation in [URL=http://www.wayoflife.org/files/dd8146908512a559d7cdd670bea1d7c6-500.html]]]outreach ministry[/URL] Most helpful I think.
I agree with his approach as well i believe most creationists share this approach, tho i know one or two that follow the traits he describes but its all useful
its been a lot of work over the last three years to learn about the bible and learn about science subjects which i previously had no interest in at all like genetics and geology.
I havent read a novel or recreational book in all that time.
Just science and the bible and doctrine.
I am praying that God will allow me the honor of using it starting this year.I am reading foxes book of martrys and the remarkable wisdom of solomon by henry morris at the moment
BTW we used the passage from revelation which you quoted on here for our family bible study tonite, the one where everyone is hiding in the rocks
we have i am sad to say neglected our study in the new year with all the trauma of moving, also ive had a difficult time in my work
loyter wrote:"Although it be true that the elect only believe unto salvation, yet it is the convinced sinner, as such, and not the elect sinner, as such, that savingly believes. Yet the gospel being offered to all mankind sinners, God’s elect, in believing, do condemn the world of unbelievers, because they receive Christ on no special ground, but offered to them as, and in common with, others. The work of God’s Spirit, in convincing of sin and misery, enlightening the mind in the knowledge of Christ, renewing the will, and persuading and enabling them to embrace Christ, is special to God’s elect: but their being saved is not on the ground of their being so, but because they believe on Jesus Christ as perishing sinners like others."(Dr. John 'Rabbi' Duncan)
A man of mighty words, a thinking mind, and a biblical genius. To unravel this mystery and actually put it into human language is immense.
I discovered this article called [URL=http://www.reformation-scotland.org.uk/articles/effectual-call-and-free-offer/]]]effectual calling and the free offer of the gospel[/URL] while I was looking for more info.
princecharles wrote:And Adam knew Eve his wife: who conceived and brought forth CainAnd Adam knew his wife again, and she bore a son and named him SethAnd Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bore EnochBefore I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born Jeremiah 1:5
Acts 7:18 Till another king arose, which knew not Joseph.
Mark 1:34 And he healed many that were sick of divers diseases, and cast out many devils; and suffered not the devils to speak, because they knew him.
Luke 24:31 And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight
"Knew" doesn't always mean loved.
Most helpful I think.
John UK wrote:If men are elect according to the foreknowledge of God (that is, God foresaw their coming to faith)
John UK wrote:Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. Then said I, Ah, Lord GOD! behold, I cannot speak: for I am a child. Jeremiah 1:5-6 KJV
princecharles wrote:Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born Jeremiah 1:5
Mike wrote:Foreknown means foreloved only in a particular theology that requires this definition in order to be upheld. Why should mysterious theology always trump receiving as a little child? Is it one of those "spiritually discerned" things that the simple child doesn't understand?
And Adam knew his wife again, and she bore a son and named him Seth
And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bore Enoch
Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born Jeremiah 1:5
princecharles wrote:---In this way Jesus claimed for himself each and every individual foreknown which means foreloved in eternity, each of us loved by Him before we were born.BTW the foreknowlege of God certainly does NOT mean as some say that God 'knew' we were going to convert. He caused us to come to Him because He loves the Son who loved us.
Michael Hranek wrote:Romans 5:8But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we (the ungodly) were still sinners, Christ died for us.I believe it is right to tell the ungodly of the love of God shown in the cross and call, plead with them to repent and call upon the Name of the Lord to be saved.
For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:6-8 KJV
If a man rejects the gospel and rejects Christ and believes not, he is, as scripture says, condemned for rejecting the gospel, rejecting Christ, and believing not. And God, being just, will not condemn any man for rejecting Christ and the gospel, except there be a Christ and a gospel to be believed in. And if they are there to be believed in, we must tell them that Christ and the gospel are for them also. And if a man be a Christ-rejecter after such, he is doubly condemned, and justly so.
Michael Hranek wrote: Question: Did Jesus' obedience to the Father in dying on the Cross and willingly shedding His blood affect or not whether someone may or may not be saved?
The answer to the question is a big yes.
God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit compacted together before the foundations of the earth were laid, outside of time in eternity to rescue from the sea of humanity certain souls from death.
Their names were written in the book of life
Those names belong to Jesus. We did not belong to Him until His work upon the cross was complete.
Only then was divine justice served for the casting away of our transgresions.
At this point and no other were we redeemed and all the other elect souls.
Jesus did not just come to die for us but something worse, to suffer, death and for a time the wrath of God
In this way Jesus claimed for himself each and every individual foreknown which means foreloved in eternity, each of us loved by Him before we were born.
BTW the foreknowlege of God certainly does NOT mean as some say that God 'knew' we were going to convert. He caused us to come to Him because He loves the Son who loved us.
Mike wrote:Only trying to get a good understanding of preselection, bro. As you have rightly pointed out, only believers will be saved. But if they were chosen to be saved prior to their existence, and this is an unalterable choosing, when were they hell-bound? If their salvation is predetermined, is not their destiny also? If so, at what point were they on their way to hell? If you are on the way somewhere, there must exist the possibility that you could arrive there.
The only way I can ponder it is that I am living in time and God is living in eternity. He sees forwards and backwards. Therefore, if I see an unbelieving, impentitent man, I feel it is right to inform him that he is a sinner, and that sinners will be punished in hell except they repent and believe the gospel. I leave 'decrees' and such to him who made them.
princecharles wrote:It does not affect wether they will be saved but our obedience to the Word ie preach to every creature, bless them that persecute you, pray for the lost etc has i believe a bearing on our eternal reward so its important. Not because Gods needs us to help Him with His eternal decrees but for our own edification and sanctification. Its a mystery. He chooses to use us but of course He does not have toIf its any help our works are ordained eph1
Question: Did Jesus' obedience to the Father in dying on the Cross and willingly shedding His blood affect or not whether someone may or may not be saved?
It is way! safe to say that the Holy Spirit who moved men to write the Scriptures puts far greater emphasis on the cross and on the blood Jesus willingly shed there for us than on predestination and election...and so should we.
Romans 5:8But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we (the ungodly) were still sinners, Christ died for us.
I believe it is right to tell the ungodly of the love of God shown in the cross and call, plead with them to repent and call upon the Name of the Lord to be saved.
Michael Hranek wrote: Question! Do our efforts in obedience to the word of God affect or not whether someone may or may not be saved?
If its any help our works are ordained eph1
Question! Do our efforts in obedience to the word of God affect or not whether someone may or may not be saved?
Jesus told us to pray for laborers.The Spirit moved Paul to make it clear, "How can they call upon Him in whom they have not believed, and how can they believe in Him in whom they have not heard." btw the Same Paul who wrote he was not ashamed of the Gospel but eager to preach it to those who where in Rome.
All this discussion is "interesting" but the issue remains those who are dead in trespasses and sin (IMHO on their way to hell) need to hear the Truth of Jesus Christ in the conviction of the Spirit that they might repent and believe in Him to save them.
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.
John UK wrote:I can only respond Mike by saying this: Hell is created for law-breakers, it is a place of punishment for sinners. Jesus preached that, and Jesus taught that. When the gospel is preached, "he that believeth and is baptised shall be saved, and he that believeth not shall be damned". And so I do not really have to go any deeper than that. Your question is trying to go too far with God's purposes. It is a bit like the hyperman who seeks to introduce eternal justification and other so-called deep doctrines. But then, you also believe in predestination and election, even if you come at it from the wrong way round. And so your own preachers cannot say to a sinner that they are hell-bound, can they? Not if your argument is correct.
But then, you also believe in predestination and election, even if you come at it from the wrong way round. And so your own preachers cannot say to a sinner that they are hell-bound, can they? Not if your argument is correct.
prince charles wrote:Hi john not quite sure i follow you but ill have ago, BTW my absoutely in my previous post was meant to agree with your previous post rather than the subject of the thread but i wasnt very clearyes i do worry about saying things which are untrue, i rerun the conversation afterwards to try and see what mistakes i may have made im getting better but ive had my regretsthe preacher tonite (visiting ) said that old cliche 'God does not go where he is not wanted' Pah ! I ran him thru the opening verses of Isiah 65 and told him that if that were the case then no one would be saved !
yes i do worry about saying things which are untrue, i rerun the conversation afterwards to try and see what mistakes i may have made im getting better but ive had my regretsthe preacher tonite (visiting ) said that old cliche 'God does not go where he is not wanted' Pah ! I ran him thru the opening verses of Isiah 65 and told him that if that were the case then no one would be saved !
Me too, I concern myself with speaking 'the truth in love' and would not wish to convey an untruth. (I also worded that one very poorly earlier.) Many is the time I have re-run something I said, only to condemn myself for not being correct. I am glad the Lord is gracious and does not expect perfection.
Your 'preacher' tonight was a bit offbeam wasn't he? As you say, how should anyone be saved, seeing as we none of us come to God as natural men, and none there are which seek him.
mathew 2541 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
ie not a place men are supposed or maybe its advised to go to - im not sure but thats the text
