It has also been remarked before that the Bible teaches very clearly both the Sovereignty of God and the responsibility of man. Eg, "All that the Father gives Me (Sovereignty) will come to Me (response). The call of the gospel, what we term the outward call, is a universal call. Hence the texts which speak about "all, the world, whosoever" etc. Yet the call of the Spirit, what we term the inward call, is like the effects of the wind and is not to everyone, hence the many texts regarding particular election and atonement.

JD quotes Ezekiel regarding God's revealed desire for all to repent. I could respond with Isaiah 6:9,10 to show God's active reprobation.

The Word of God, JD, ALWAYS accomplishes HIS purposes. To those it is intended to save it saves, and to those it is intended to condemn it condemns. But you will never see that, even though the Bible says it, because it destroys your free-will theology.
And you have the hide to cast stones at the Wolf.

The Lone Wolf wrote:
Preacher, I am with you. All he is doing is tit for tat games like JD and Yamil. I have no more time to help someone who is unteachable. I once thought he was and had a sweet, gentile, tender spirit.

Never mind - I can only quote Scripture, people either take it or leave it. There are some things that are unclear and ambiguous. But theology starts with God. God first tells us who He is, what His characteristics and attributes are. Once you start with a wrong concept of God you can never arrive at a correct concept of sin, salvation, worship or anything.

For some time now the God of the Bible has been reduced to a God who is only love. People no longer want to hear of His Justice, His Wrath, His vengeance. Hence some "evangelicals" are even turning against the doctrine of eternal hell. It does not square with their concept of a God who is love.

Michael Hranek wrote:
Preacher
I guess you forgot you posted to me how I didn't understand the 5 points of Calvinism and that this is the system of theology you defend while criticising others, as if somehow John Calvin and his behavior can be separated somehow from the fruits of his teachings. So I guess you would like to recommend an expensive Calvinistic disciple of Frued or something.
btw another early post of yours makes me consider that prehaps you also don't really believe in a literal fulfillment of prophecy either. Something Roman Catholics are also famous for.

He must have been a superman. On top of his voluminous writings, daily preaching and teaching and endless correspondence the man was (according to people like you) engaged in full time persecution of his detractors.

Even in the New Testament, every time the word "Scripture" is mentioned, it mostly always refers to the OT. Paul talks to Timothy about the Scriptures which make you wise unto salvation; Jesus told the disciples on the Emmaus road everything about Himself, from the OT Scriptures. If they do not believe Moses and the prophets, neither will they be converted even if one is raised from the dead.

I find nothing more frustrating than being told during a theological debate, "Oh, but that is Old Testament!" As if that has no authority and is not the Living Word of God for all time.

Michael Hranek wrote:
Preacher
With that kind of reasoning you could get really ridiculous and tell your congregation, 'let's get our theology from Satan, he knows so much more about God than we do and probably knows the Bible better than any man living on earth and it doesn't matter if he hates God and his sin deserves hell or not.'

Michael Hranek wrote:
Preacher
It is about time you be honest with yourself. Calvin was heavily involved in persecuting those who did not believe his way. Men simply should not make him into somekind of infallible or unquestionable idol like a "Pope" and in so doing sin against the Lord Jesus Christ.

Arminianism (and Antinomianism)
Barthianism (Liberalism in disguise)
Charismaticalism
Dispensationalism

The Old Testament prophets defined a Christian as one who had the law of God written on their heart. To those who are not true Christians, the Son says, "I never knew you. Depart from Me, you who practise lawlesness." Those who are Christ's are several times referred to in Revelation as "Those who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."

Paul does not contrast law and grace, but WORKS and grace. He contrasts being saved by grace and being saved by perfect obedience to God. Jesus said, "If you love Me, keep My commandments." Who would say that Jesus has a different set of "thou shalt nots" than the Father? The Antinomians, I guess.

The modern church is so caught up in its Freewill dispensensationalism it has jettisoned almost all the Old Testament. They are so engaged in flapping around waiting for their secret rapture, they have no time to study anything outside their ridiculous eschatology.

The chief end of man is to glorify God and to enjoy Him forever. You cannot glorify God without striving to obey His law. The law is the revelation of God's character.

Michael Hranek wrote:
From what I see Calvinism largely depends on starting with their beliefs and then picking and choosing and redefining the words of Scripture to fit and justify their beliefs.

By the way; 1st, all religious study in Calvin's day was Roman Catholic - there was nothing else yet; 2nd, most of his studies before conversion were in law; 3rd for the last time, these doctrines we defend were not formulated by John Calvin. Martin Luther wrote more vehemently on the subject than anyone else in that time.

Regeneration, justification and sanctification are all provided by Christ and applied by the Spirit of God at conversion. You cannot have one without all three. At your conversion the Spirit of God enters you, raising you to life from spiritual death, justifying you in the eyes of God and sanctifying (setting apart) you. Throughout your life there is a continual outflow of these 3 in daily repentance, forgiveness and holiness of life (progressive sanctification).

This was already promised by God in Ezekiel; a new heart (regeneration), cleansing from filthiness and idolatry (justification) and causing us to walk in God's statutes (sanctification). We see these again in John's gospel. Regeneration in John 3 (Nicodemus), justification in John 4 (Woman of Samaria) and Sanctification in John 8 (if My word abides in you then you will be truly free.)

The return of Christ is not to come until after "He has put all enemies under His feet." Dispensationalism has robbed the Church of Christ of its glorious mandate to make disciples of nations. They expect the church age to end in a whimper. God declares it will end with a shout of triumph.
AMEN.

Michael Hranek wrote:
Preacher
Are you by chance acting like a Calvinist who somehow believes you have a divine right to lord it over others? No! I will not answer your demand

Michael Hranek wrote:
Preacher
I don't know what kind of Bible you are reading

You did not read the texts I forwarded to you, did you? You are all the same, you start with what you believe then read the Bible accordingly, and any parts of the Bible that disagree with you is either ignored or mutilated.

Read Job 15:14-16; Ps 53:2,3; 58:3; Ec7:20,29; 9:3; Is 53:6; 64:6; Jer 13:23; 17:9. These are just a few texts that talk about sin and its effects on man.
Now the New Testament; Jn 3:5,18; 6:44; 8:34, 43; Acts 26:18; Rom 3:9, 19, 23; 6:20; 7:18,23; 8:7; I Cor 1:18; 2:14; II COr 4:3; Eph 2:1,5; 2:12; 4:17; Col 2:13; IITim 2:25; II Pet 2:19.

Many of these clearly speak about man's natural condition. Don't argue with me, go argue with God. These are His words, not mine.

I know you will ignore these texts and come back with John 3:16. But when will you understand that the "whosoever" is not determined by man, but by God.

jago wrote:
Minnow.
Thank you for the links. They really do seem to hold a strange mix of beliefs.

The Bible also goes to great lengths to show the depth of love God has for sinners. But if God had to wait for anyone to choose His salvation He would wait in vain, for there is none who seeks after God, no, not even one.

Paul goes to extraordinary lengths to show that our salvation is of God and from God, from before the foundation of the world. In Romans 9 he anticipates every humanistic argument and effortlessly defeats them.

Many Christians still cannot accept these truths. They seem to need to cling to something that man can do, even such a small thing as a free-will decision. They twist and try to explain away the clear teaching of Scripture. Yes, Jesus said, "Whosoever will" and "Whosoever believes in Me". But man in his natural state does not will and will not believe. He cannot accept Jesus because He hates God and loves sin. The Bible calls him dead in sin, unable to discern spiritual things, unable to even see the kingdom before regeneration, let alone enter.