John UK wrote:
Hi CandleLit, the verse in John 17 is a big favourite of mine, as it defines eternal life very well. , a book called "The Life of God in the Soul of Man".

Do you know anyone who runs a Christian cafe/drop in centre up north? I was a part of one some years ago, and it was an amazing experience, as lots of people used to come in every day with their problems, hopes and fears, looking for help and comfort. I really miss that sort of evangelism, which combines assistance and love with the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Thanks for that recommendation for the book. The title sounds intriquing. I should look for it, though I must say, I have soooo many books that I have stockpiled - so, that I will never be without something to read, should the power grid fail, and we be returned to the days of old.

CONGRATULATIONS, on selling your first painting.

That is so exciting! Be sure to give out a business card when you are talking with people. We've used those business cards after returning home from a trip.

Concerning your question about "life" -

I'm thinking of the Genesis account of God breathing life into Adam - and, making man in His image. Man became an eternal spirit being when God, who is Spirit, and Eternal, breathed into Adam's nostrils the breath of life. The fact that this is recorded differently from that of giving life to the animal kingdom, means that the breath of life was not of the same nature as that given to other life.

After the fall, man was no longer indwelt by the Holy Spirit, BUT, in Redemption, he is, once again, indwelt by the Spirit of God, and can be said to "have the life of God in him."

Jesus when praying to the Father as recorded in John 17:3 said, "This is life eternal, that they may know Thee, the only true God."

So, life is knowing God. It is the presence of God in man.

DJC49 wrote:
*Candle Lit* & *John UK* --
You two need to go sit in the corner. Don't forget to take your caps!
Together, you both can convince yourselves that the Gospel was PREACHED to every man that ever lived as per Col 1:23. Ha!
Now stop and think for 2 seconds instead of being enamored with your fantastic daydreamings.
Read Rom 10:14,15 for starters -- and meditate on what it's saying.
And if EVERYONE has already heard the gospel since Adam, *John UK*, then you don't have to worry about evangelism anymore. After all, day after day the "gospel" is preached "albeit in a simple form." Right?
Since when is having a soul and a conscience equivalent to having the Gospel preached to oneself? And you're REALLY playing fast & loose with the poetry of Psalm 19:2,3 when you infuse the Gospel into what the Psalmist is writing about.
Both of you need to desperately get a grip upon what the word "PREACH" means. It's NOT about having a soul, or a conscience; or a placard on the Cross, or whatever else you guys might dream up in order to
S T R E T C H the meaning of the word "PREACH" so that every person who ever lived heard.

DJC49 wrote:
It makes perfect sense! ... IF ... the word "preached" [Gk: κηρύσσω ] didn't mean to proclaim, publish, or herald (as a public crier).
But it does.
The essential element of "κηρύσσω" being that it's about actual WORDS coming out of someone's mouth.

to the dying thief: "Truly I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise."

to the Father, for the crowd: "Father forgive them for they know
not what they do."

to the Father: "It is finished. Into Thy hands do I commit my Spirit."

And, from the cross - a very PUBLIC heralding.

The gospel was preached in its truest form and loudest proclamation from the cross - not with words, but by an act, and occurred at a specific point in time, and at a specific place, to be recorded and understood by people then, later, and now, as a historic and redemptive act, to those who would believe.

That the gospel was preached to the whole world, doesn't necessarily mean that the whole world saw it or heard it or responded to it, but that it was declared, proclaimed, preached even without words by the sacrificial dying of Jesus on the Cross. It would appear that it is the DECLARATION to the whole WORLD, that is the objective, not that every single person heard.

The Col. 1:23 passage doesn't say everyone heard, rather "it was preached to every creature."

Questionmark wrote:
Q: what does it mean that the gospel WHICH WAS preached to every creature which is under heaven?
Obviously the gospel wasn't at that time preached to EVERY CREATURE-so it cannot mean every person alive and living in the world at that time Paul is writing?

The gospel was publicly declared at the point in time when God, our Creator, incarnate in Jesus Christ, hung on a cross, to make possible a restored relationship that had been broken by Adam, the father of all living, in the Garden.

"And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life." John 3:14,15

"And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself." John 12:32 (Jesus speaking)

Arah wrote:
I do not *think* I am a good person, I KNOW I am.

So, let's agree that you ARE good, BUT by what standard shall we measure goodness?

Are you good compared to your alcoholic neighbor?

Are you good compared to those who gave their lives to rescue others in 9/11?

Are you good compared to the historical Jesus?

There must be a standard for measuring goodness. What is yours?

And, since you are an atheist, and therefore, by your standards, not accountable to a transcendent God for your actions, WHY be good?

Why not do what serves your best interest when the situation arises? You've heard of situation ethics?

Let's say, for example, that you are transporting a dying elderly woman, in an ambulance, to the hospital. She has on her finger a valuable diamond ring. She will no longer need it. No one will know if you slip it off her finger and keep it. You slip it off and into your pocket. Who's to know? What's the harm?

What's wrong with that?

lyn wrote:
Why is my post so confusing and so misinterpreted by so many?!?
I give up! I do wish I could erase all my postings here.
Have a blessed day gentlemen, and ladies as well.

Am I one of those responsible for you feeling like you should give up posting? Don't do that!

I appreciate your perseverance in sharing your faith, and speaking truth to error.

Won't it be wonderful when we will be able to communicate perfectly, without misunderstanding?

Blessings to you as you find rest this evening.

Arah wrote:
Yes, I have met “True” Christians. Two of them. They continue to this day to be very good friends of mine.
All the others have been hateful, intolerant, prejudiced, and oppressive with a huge superiority complex.
If you truly want Christianity to thrive

God's grace is already evident in your life in giving you not one, but two, Christians with whom you have a friendship. May they share with you the love of Christ, and may you come to know Him.

It is not a testimony of the grace of God in the lives of those who are hateful and oppressive. There will always be what the Bible calls "tares" among the "wheat." IOW, fake vs. real.

As to Christianity thriving. . .I wouldn't put it that way. It is not a movement per se, but it is individuals being brought into the Kingdom of God - made possible by His plan of Redemption.

It is an amazing unfolding of the Glory of God throughout history and in creation to bring to a culmination this wonderful plan of Redemption.

Springtime in its full glory pales in comparison to the "new life" brought about in Christ Jesus.

DJC49 wrote:
What you say above, *Candle Lit*, is not entirely true. The sharer's relationship with Christ is not the determinative factor in others coming to a saving knowledge and faith in Jesus Christ. Rather, it's the very message that he bears. As a matter of fact, I've heard sermons right here on SermonAudio in which the preacher confessed that it was after some time that he, as a preacher, realized that he himself was not saved! Nevertheless, many were indeed introduced and saved by the Gospel he had preached to others while under his unsaved condition. I think that [URL=http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/articles/finney.htm]]]Charles G. Finney[/URL] might be a prime example of this: despite his being a thoroughgoing heretic, it's doubtful that none were saved under his preaching of the Gospel.
Scripture testifies to this. [Ref: Mark 9:38-41; Luke 9:49,50; and especially Phil 1:15-18]
_
But I understand your point completely.

lyn wrote:
The point is, Mrs. Palin calls herself a Christian, but thinks sexual immorality is what happens in life. She doesn't see it as a grievous sin against a Holy God.

John UK wrote:
But time is of the essence. We need to tell men that God is MERCIFUL and therefore willing to forgive. Any who argue about that is a fool. John 3:16 sums up the truth. To argue about WHY God loves is stupidity.
But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee.... Luke 12:20 KJV
Dying men need a cure, not clever answers.

We can know truth, but not know the Saviour, but we cannot know the Saviour and not know truth.

The only way to introduce someone to Jesus is to personally know Him. It is not enough to know about Him, or to know His teachings, or even as Josephus writes about Him from a historical viewpoint. If we are to share the gospel with others, we must KNOW Him, and our lives will bear testimony of that relationship.

Wasn't it in Africa when missionaries came and shared who Jesus was that the response from the people was, "Oh, he has already been here" - or, something to that effect. They were referring to David Livingston, of course. His life so reflected Jesus that there was no difference in the minds of the people.

I think you need to meet a genuine Christian!

Do you even know a genuine Christian?

Would you be willing to meet with someone who could share with you what their relationship with Jesus looks like? How He has changed their life, and how He has given them direction in how to live life now?

I'm sure that there is someone in Indiana, near you, who would be willing to invite you into their home for a Bible study. I may be able to network to see if I know of anyone who knows of someone who would make themselves available.

You can begin to study Scripture on your own. Read John's gospel through. Pray that God would give you understanding, that He would open your eyes to what is true. He says that He will not turn away anyone who diligently seeks Him.

All along the way, God placed people in my life, at just the right time to move me in the direction of Truth, and to disciple me.

Flame of the wick wrote:
CL
Why do you try to purloin so much for the mortal-sinner?
Why not give all the glory to God and His Son?
Can you not perceive how UNworthy man is?
Grace is of God and from God and is only Godly favor and source.
Is it part of vanity that you should claim to have the same grace
as God for salvation purposes?

How is it that you have such a LOW view of the pinnacle of God's creation, namely, man and his redemption?

Would you have so little appreciation of Michelangelo's "David" that you would exalt the artist/sculptor but shun his masterpiece?

How do you Glorify God by thinking of His creation with contempt?

It was His plan to redeem fallen man. The work itself is to be valued, and should leave us in awe. That's what it means to Glorify God.

How could one love the Father and not love His creation, and the one created in His Image?

I think you need to re-think your view of man. God thought enough of His creation to put it on display.

Arah wrote:
1) They were raised Christian, prayed to Jesus before their meals, attended church every week, and quoted Scriptures to suit their purpose in addition to calling themselves Christians. If it looks Christian, acts Christian, and smells Christian, chances are, it's Christian.

2)Do you intend to answer the questions posed?

Arah wrote:
You all claim that Atheists have no morals, because Morals only come from God.
So answer me this: Who is more moral in the following examples? *All examples are of people I have known personally*
The Christian, who forced his wife on the floor and smeared his own poo in her face, saying, "This is fun, we should do it again!" Or the atheist wife, who divorced him for it?
The Christian, who slept with her own sister's husband for $400, or the atheist who volunteers at local homeless shelters?
The Christian, who did time in jail for illegally copying and selling child porn, or the atheist who has never broken a law in her entire life?
Someone (was it Mike?) said that morals are subjective, and it all depends on what is right for that particular person. Or do you honestly believe that the Christians in the above examples were more moral then the atheists?

Why is it easier to believe that someone who SAYS they are Christian without any verifiable proof, than to believe the verifiable proof of Scripture?

John UK wrote:
This account of Stephen's death at the hand of his persecutors is a continual reminder to me of the attitude God expects of all his people. It is an illustration of genuine Christianity, which is powerful, as opposed to 'religious' Christianity which is powerless.
It also illustrates to me what my state is before God. My standing 'in Christ' is never changed eternally, because the 'gifts and calling of God are without repentance'. But my standing varies according to my own dilligence or lack of it. I can so grieve or quench the Spirit within me, that my character loses its godly edge, and I would not be able to act or pray as Stephen did.
What am I saying? I claim that God has given all his people everything needful for a godly life, especially the Spirit. When his Spirit fills me, I am full of grace, and when I grieve him, I am not so gracious. But it is my responsibility.

Xaris wrote:
"Grace is eternal (II Tim. 1:9), immutable (Rom. 11:29), sovereign (Rom. 9:11-24), effectual (Eph. 2:8-9; John 6:37, 39, 44, 63-65), and destroys all room for human boasting (I Cor. 1:29-31; 4:7). It means that the Triune God gets all the praise, honor, and glory for our salvation: The Father for planning it, the Son for purchasing it, and the Holy Spirit for applying and uniting us to it (Eph. 1:2-14). Christ is not only efficient, but is alone sufficient for salvation (Heb 9:12; 10:10) such that our own merit or works righteousness can do nothing to either attain or maintain our justification. The assistance of grace does not even depend on the humility or obedience of . . .

Children look like their Father, and have a special relationship that the world does not know.

I've beeb thinking further on our discussion on grace in the life of the believer.

In the account of Stephen in Acts, we read that he is "full of the Holy Ghost." The account further states that Stephen is praying for those who are stoning him. This is an account that parallels our Saviour's death on the cross and His prayer for forgiveness from the Father for those who are responsible for His death. This is GRACE.

Another example of the GRACE of God working in the heart of a believer is seen in the account of Job, where God would ONLY forgive the sins of Job's friends, when Job prayed for them.

This GRACE in all three accounts, is undeserved, unmerited favour toward the ones causing the offense, and is not natural to man, but is a God given ability to extend forgiveness, and is demonstrated by intercessory prayer
for the offender.

Colossians 3:16 says, "Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with GRACE in your hearts to the Lord."

ml, my point is that the presence of the indwelling of the Spirit within us manifests the attributes of the Spirit, one being GRACE.

As Christians, are we filled with the Spirit?

Yes, we are indwelt, but not always filled. We may quench the Spirit, or grieve the Spirit, through neglect of prayer or Bible reading, or through sin.

Does the Spirit within us manifest the Grace of God?

It should.

Are we "full of Grace?"

I think Stephen was:
When the Acts 7:55 passage says that Stephen was "full of the Holy Ghost" as he was being martyred, I think it could be understood as Stephen was "full of Grace."