Ena Sharples wrote:John I cant find pozer's toast? Sorry Tozer's post.
Have a look at me ol' post box number 12/20/09 6.08am and see if that tickles your Corrie.
John UK wrote:Hey, O slippery one! Are you thinking that AW Tozer was a heretic, and didn't know what he was talking about?Phew! You're the brave one. And why was I recommended I listen to a specific sermon by Tozer if he was so offbeam? Did you listen to it? In my post I only quoted what I heard from that sermon. Take it up with Tozer if you want a debate.
t.q.4 wrote:You need to check out John's original post Mike. Hence the specific reason for those verses.
Are you thinking that AW Tozer was a heretic, and didn't know what he was talking about?
Phew! You're the brave one.
And why was I recommended I listen to a specific sermon by Tozer if he was so offbeam? Did you listen to it?
In my post I only quoted what I heard from that sermon. Take it up with Tozer if you want a debate.
Mike wrote:You should pay closer attention to the verses you post, which refer to believers.......dwell in unbelievers?
John UK wrote:Check out my post 12/20/09 6.08am and tell me if you can find, in Tozer's definition of omnipresence any reference to "IN" anybody.
Omnipresent still means exactly what it has always meant which is God is excluded from nowhere.
"Accordingly, I will endeavour, by the assistance of his Spirit, first a little to explain the omnipresence of God; to show how we are to understand this glorious truth, "God is in this, and every place." The Psalmist, you may remember, speaks strongly and beautifully upon it in the hundred and thirty-ninth Psalm; observing in the most exact order, First, "God is in this place;" and Then, "God is in every place." He observes, First, "Thou art about my bed, and about my path, and spiest out all my ways." (Ps. 139:3) "Thou hast fashioned me behind and before, and laid thine hand upon me.".....He next observes, in the most lively and affecting manner, that God is in every place" (From your Arminian bro John Wesley)
Alan H wrote:It appears so. This seems all too familiar...
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. John 14:17-18 KJV
The Spirit dwelt WITH the disciples, but was shortly to dwell WITHIN them, after the resurrection, that is, at Pentecost.
These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. John 14:25-26 KJV
Note the words, "being yet present with you.." that is, "I shall soon be NOT be present with you..."
Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. John 14:28 KJV
Note the words, "I go away, and come again unto you.." Jesus went away, but came unto them AGAIN. How? BY HIS SPIRIT. Sure he did.
John UK wrote:You mean we're back at sq 1, Mike?
Lurker, I'll commit to staying out of it if you will! I was so relieved when we ended the debate the other day. It felt soooo good to have it over. I had thought that John intended to let it go for now too, but apparently the temptation was too great.
See Matthew 28:20
t.q.3 wrote:"Omnipresent" - Except in specific bits of His creation.???That doesn't even define the word properly John.---Why is it you deny God in His infinite and omnipotent attributes to be where He is in creation? Is God omnipresent - YES the true church has preached for millennia. NO says John there are specific parts from which God is excluded? Thus John's book says God cannot reach all parts of creation since He is not THAT "omnipresent" Bible says - 12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, GOD DWELLETH IN US, and his love is perfected in us. 13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, AND HE IN US, because he hath given us of his Spirit. 1Jn.4John says - Not True!Bible - 15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, GOD DWELLETH IN HIM, and he in God.John - Nope!!2Cor 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I WILL DWELL IN THEM...John - Not in my book?
John UK wrote:Check out my post 12/20/09 6.08am and tell me if you can find, in Tozer's definition of omnipresence any reference to "IN" anybody. Thank you
That doesn't even define the word properly John. I'm getting very worried about your hypothetical syncopations.
Why is it you deny God in His infinite and omnipotent attributes to be where He is in creation? Is God omnipresent - YES the true church has preached for millennia. NO says John there are specific parts from which God is excluded? Thus John's book says God cannot reach all parts of creation since He is not THAT "omnipresent"
Bible says - 12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, GOD DWELLETH IN US, and his love is perfected in us. 13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, AND HE IN US, because he hath given us of his Spirit. 1Jn.4
John says - Not True!
Bible - 15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, GOD DWELLETH IN HIM, and he in God.
John - Nope!!
2Cor 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I WILL DWELL IN THEM...
John - Not in my book?
t.q.2 wrote:What is the difference John.
Check out my post 12/20/09 6.08am and tell me if you can find, in Tozer's definition of omnipresence any reference to "IN" anybody. Thank you!
John UK wrote:Good question! And the answer is: there is a big difference between being present, and being indwelling. Christ only indwells believers, by his Spirit.
Mike wrote:Amen, bro But this is where we came in, isn't it?
Ha! What direction shall we go in this time?
But this is where we came in, isn't it?
the question wrote:If the omnipresence of God is genuine as you have established, why does he require the indwelling of the Holy Spirit if he himself is also present?
And the answer is: there is a big difference between being present, and being indwelling.
Christ only indwells believers, by his Spirit.
John UK wrote:Any questions?
