Michael Hranek wrote:
Duh
Really?
So let's be honest here as if what you post is accurage WHY??? Aren't Calvinist/Reformed/DOGers exhorting people to pray and seek God to do what He has PROMISED that lost people we love and care about come to salvation
instead of sabotaging the faith of the child of God to pray and not faint, especially for the most impossible of sinners (humanly speaking) they love and care about to be saved, and not stop till they are, or they die?

If you have come across Hypers (and they are a growing crowd) then you have a very stilted view of what DOG people believe. So rather than tar everyone with the same brush, be a bit more discerning.

Michael Hranek wrote:
Dear Duh
Thanks for the post back
Sorry, I forget sometimes that not everyone professing to believe in the Grace of God has an interest in seeking Him in fervent prayer and intercession, for His mercy, grace and to do what is impossible for us who do not deserve His answers to see His kingdom come and His will done in our lives and those we care about and yet so desperately need them.

Thanks for your post back.

It is those who believe that God accomplishes what he pleases who can pray to him, according to his will, for the salvation of individuals, because he can open hearts. That is why we preach the gospel (its is God's instrument and power in Salvation) and we pray knowing that God will hear prayer and open hearts.

Michael Hranek wrote:
Dear Duh
I take it you hold to Calvinistic/Reformed theology of some form or another.

Michael Hranek wrote:
Why don't you do this instead, simply let Scripture speak in context of the whole as Mike from NY has done, resting on the reality that God knows what He says far more than any theologian no matter how expert and adored by men they might be.

Michael Hranek wrote:
AND also in as much as you might have any concern that the lost hear the Truth of Jesus Christ and are truly converted to Him, I trust you know it will indeed take a supernatural sovereign work of God
So PRAY!!!

Mike wrote:
Christ the propitiation has satisfied the requirements of justice. His work is sufficient to save the whole world. God is satisfied on man's behalf. True, not all the world will be saved, because not all in the world will put their trust in Him. Sufficient for all, efficient only for those who believe, not in their own works, but who believe, and believe in, Him who saves them, and in His work.

Mike wrote:
If all were automatically saved, there would be no need for preaching the gospel at all. But if all the saved are preselected, preaching of the gospel is emptied of the "power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth," for it would not and could not change a thing.

Skylight wrote:
Question: do you feel it is vital to preach the gospel to every living creature or just do nothing because it's God who does the "electing"?

Skylight wrote:
Haha... Skydark! Funny! Hey, you shouldn't throw stones if you live in a glass house. Apperantly I'm talking to a child who's been corrupted by the teachings of an ex-Roman Catholic. It seems you should spend a little more time in the book but before you can understand it, you should get get saved biblically instead of assuming you've been elected or predestined to go to heaven. Then will the Holy Spirit open your eyes to the truth. Good luck kiddo.

Skylight wrote:
Incase you didn't comprehend what I said about the argument between the two, yes I'm very aware of what this thread is about,duh!

Skylight wrote:
As far as predestined fate, isn't that what you beleive? That only certain are predestined to be saved and the rest are predestined to be damned? Duh!

Skylight wrote:
As far as free will, even after a man is confronted with the gospel and aware of his condition he's in, yes he still has a free will to either accept or reject the free gift from God. Duh!

Skylight wrote:
Christ did die for the whole world. He wants the whole world to be saved, that is the Fathers will right?...Duh?

Lurker wrote:
Like it or not, there are two worlds (kosmos) in view in the NT and you've got to pick the right one for 1 John 2:2. Will you?

Skylight wrote:
One claims that salvation can be lost and the other claims predestined fate.
Salvation is eternal so Arminianism is not correct.
If we were predestined as calvinism says, then where does free will come in to play?

Predestined fate? Predestination is not about fatalism silly.

John for JESUS wrote:
Yes, all unsaved. When people have trouble grasping what the Bible says, I think they tend to reinterpret it to make it understandable to them. I believe that is what you are doing. However, the verse says what it says. Jesus is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world, not just believers. Why will some be sentenced to Hell? As a result of them not believing in Jesus, who is the propitiation for their sins. They are not in Christ, so how can they have their sins atoned for?

What does propitiation mean? What does atonement mean? What is the relation between propitiation and atonement?

John for JESUS wrote:
And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. (I John 2:2 NKJV)
As I understand it, Jesus is the propitiation for all the believer's sins, and not for theirs only but for the sins of the whole world. Like it says.

John for JESUS wrote:
And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. (I John 2:2 NKJV)
It's pretty sad that people who profess Christ will argue against this truth!

John Yurich USA wrote:
My local Catholic parish doesn't use bells or incense. The only time they use incense is during Funeral Mass. What is repetition over teaching?

John Yurich USA wrote:
Well the Mennonite Church is now a liberal church. But the Catholic Church is and always has been a conservative church for being against abortion and homosexuality.

John Yurich USA wrote:
How insane can anybody be?

Marshall wrote:
If babies all go to heaven, then the abortion clinics are doing a wonderful service, saving all those souls from any torment or pain, and we should support their work.....

Christ saves the elect. wrote:
Mike
One question I would like to put to you is that in Rom 1:18 we find the 'wrath' of God being referred to. Now when is God angry with the sinner and fallen world?
The opposite of that would be when is God 'happy' about the fallen world. Never?
If we accept that God is angry with the fallen world, the sinner in his state of iniquity, then the quote "given them up" or "given them over" is a permanent state of affairs between the fallen world and the Lord.
Reprobation then becomes a more long term even eternal state of being and justice then requires punished in hell!