pew view wrote:
Therefore their "resistance" is allegorical of the pre-saved estate of all sinners. When the grace of the Lord and the Holy Spirit "draws them" eg:: John 6:37/44 - THEN natural "resistance" as it is termed is removed by God! Man cannot achieve this on his own, the natural estate of the sinner is only removed by Irresistible Grace.

2 Cor 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. Now all things ARE OF GOD, who has reconciled US TO HIMSELF through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

Now all things ARE OF GOD...reconciled US TO HIMSELF...

John UK wrote:
"Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye."

The Holy Spirit spoke through the prophets and through the written word. This passage is not talking about mans ability to resist The Holy Spirit's omnipotent power.

You three, Paegon Understanding, John UK and Michael Hranek have all just established that man apart from the spiritual work of the Holy Spirit has the human faculties to come to Christ. That is clearly PELAGIANISM! Spurgeon, Wesley and Arminias would have all called you heretics for holding such a belief.

You three exalt the human faculties of goodness and the human will, those attributes which are the weakest in sinful man, above the work of the Holy Spirit!

"This whole people, as well as this text, are fearful proofs that the Holy Spirit, the almighty energy of the living God, may be resisted and rendered of none effect. This Spirit is not sent to machines, but to human beings endued with rational souls;"

John Yurich USA wrote:
Why do you state that you doubt that I will ever get married? Just because I am going to be the master of the house and the head of my wife? The Bible states that the husband is the master of the wife and the wife is subserviant to the husband.

It says that You are to love your wife as Christ loved the church. It does not say anything about you bossing her around or ruling over her. You are to be a leader, not a slave driver.

Calvinist Understanding wrote:
[URL=http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/reformed/godgift.htm]]]Is faith the gift of God in Eph 2.8?[/URL]

In this verse, to what does the word "that" refer to? Adam Clarke, Wesley & company say that it is neuter plural and "Faith" is feminine hence it cannot refer to faith, (Such an admission would destroy their theological system.) However "Grace" is also feminine as is "Salvation".

Michael Hranek wrote:
Yet one thing I believe it is safe to say is that "To Persecute, Hate, Despise, Reject, Abuse" a genuine saved born again of the Holy Ghost child of God for his or her faith in Christ and love for Him imagining by this one is doing service for God is not a gift of God at all but of Satan.

THAT WOULD BE JOHN CALVIN! No other saint has been ridiculed as much by anyone but by YOU Michael Hranek. Not only that, you broadbrush everyone who agrees with Calvin with a charge that we worship him.

Calvin himself is never quoted on these forums. The WCF does not even mention his name, nor do they used the words Calvinism. YOU some day will have to give account for how you have treated this saint.

You may attack the doctrines of grace, but YOU attack the saint himself.

John Yurich USA wrote:
That is good that the woman wants to wear skirts and dresses and not pants. When I get married I am not going to allow my wife to wear pants. I am going to make her wear skirts and dresses only. I have always thought that women should wear skirts and dresses and not pants.

John UK wrote:
What a delight it is to have little tussles with you, and we must remember that the Lord loves all his little flock, the faithful remnant.

Romans 11:3 Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel, saying, "Lord, they have killed Your prophets and torn down Your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life"? But what does the divine response say to him? "I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal." Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work. What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

There has always been a remnant because of God's electing grace.

John UK wrote:
Roger,
You picked a poor passage in 1 Corinthians 10 to show regeneration in the old testament. Paul was speaking about these old testament folks who 'drank from the same spiritual rock (Christ)' but all but two died under the wrath of God.

I was not using this passage to identify that all those who came through the Red Sea were regenerated. But this passage unites the O.T. saints to the N.T. saints of both drinking from the same Rock. Now the O.T. saints were saved physically from judgement because of Moses's faith. In other words, they were identified "in Moses" Just like all saints O.T. and N.T. are "idenitified" or "baptised" "IN CHRIST".

John UK wrote:
Are you saying the old testament saints were all born-again believers?

John UK wrote:
Are you saying the old testament saints were all born-again believers?

cont...

John 4:10 Jesus answered and said to her, "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, 'Give Me a drink,' you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water." The woman said to Him, "Sir, You have nothing to draw with, and the well is deep. Where then do You get that living water? Are You greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well, and drank from it himself, as well as his sons and his livestock?" Jesus answered and said to her, "Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life."

Proverbs 1:23 Turn at my rebuke; Surely I will pour out my spirit on you; I will make my words known to you.

John UK wrote:
where in the old testament did God teach about this?

DJC49 wrote:
BTW, Faith and Hope were byproducts of creation too. No?

Mike wrote:
Is there biblical evidence that the Holy spirit permanently indwelled the people of the OT in the sense we understand it in the NT?

Acts 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat UPON each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Acts 10:44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been POURED out on the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Then Peter answered, "Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who HAVE RECEIVED the Holy Spirit just as we have?"

Take note that the Spirit coming UPON and being POURED OUT ON are identifed with the infilling.

John UK wrote:
Besides which, how are you going to cope at the Bema when you meet thousands of people you call dummies who were assisted into understanding the Chrisian faith by this very verse of God's word?

No atonement, no salvation. An experience does not save you. A prayer to ask Jesus into your heart does not save you. An objective act of obedience on the cross saves you. Revelation 3:20 IS NOT THE GOSPEL! It is a passage of LAW. Any passage of scripture that demands obedience, IS LAW. Every passage that OFFERS and DISPENSES grace is GOSPEL.

You are still looking to the LAW to be saved. Asking Jesus into your heart is an act of LAW. Your defenition of repentence is an act of LAW.

John UK wrote:
We'd better have a look at this text. Here is Jesus knocking on the door. We know it is a message for individuals because he uses the singular.

14 "AND TO THE ANGEL of the church of the Laodiceans"

In the old testament God spoke to Israel in the singular. But Israel in the O.T. can define, Israel the person (Jacob) or it can mean the 10 tribes, or it can mean Israel as a nation physical nation, or it can mean the Israel or God, the true church, or it can mean the true Israelite, Jesus.

I will take it as the angel or messenger of the church or "church age" in Laodicea.

Nevertheless, we do not use the highly symbolic book of Revelation to interpret the O.T. We use the O.T. to interpret the symbolic language of the Book of Revelation.

But Romans is a different matter. Paul teaches the doctrine of justification and proclaims the Gospel. The Gospel is a proclamation about what God did for us objectively on the cross. The Gospel is not inviting Jesus into your heart subjectivley.

THIS IS THE PROBLEM OF THE CHURCH TODAY! Teaching that justification is an subjective experience, not an objective work by GOD.

John UK wrote:
As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
(Revelation 3:19-20 KJV)
Christianity is REAL LIFE, Roger, not a stroll through theological gardens.

Michael Hranek wrote:
John UK
Wow! I do believe you've hit a serious "theological nail" right on the head.
...for whom "God be merciful to me, THE SINNER", was a prayer they were NOT willing to pray

Where was this LOVE from Seth to 30 A.D? If God had abandoned everyone during that time and was not regenerating unbelievers into belief, how were they saved? It appears that they were left to their own, without any hope of salvation.

What is the difference in how the Holy Spirit worked in salvation before 30 A.D. and after Pentecost?

Mike wrote:
Funny, I don't remember saying that. I do remember tossing a question out, seeking response from others. However, for the sake of argument:
God needs Satan's help to bring about his plan of redemption? I was under the impression that you believed we are born in sin. A gift from Adam. Therefore what further help does Satan's existence provide that brings God glory through his plan of redemption for believers? Satan did his job long ago with Adam and Eve, right?

John UK wrote:
Narrow it down?
I thought the old testament spanned just 4000 years? Oh well, carry on John, let's not be put off.
What was the Holy Ghost doing since Creation and the Fall?
Oooooooohh, er, ummmmmm, ahemmmm.
He anointed certain ones to speak to people. These are the prophets.
He anointed a few people to be skilful craftsmen. These are the crafty ones.
He anointed some with power, so that they could kill a thousand with a bone. These are the strong ones.
He anointed some to write under direct inspiration of God. These are the scribe ones.
He gave direct revelation to some, in the time of silence. These are the Simeon ones.
He was instrumental in the birth of the Saviour to a virgin. This is Mary.
Besides that, he spoke to false prophets through the lips of donkeys, he created a big flood, he made earthquakes, he turned back the waters of Jordan, he made the sun go backwards, he turned the hearts of kings, he brought quail into the Israelite camp.....
I should think the Holy Ghost is doing something every moment of every day, even in the old testament.