Faith IS the gift of GOD.
AMEN!!!

The Lone Wolf Wrote
Actually JD, I have proved my case. I have never claimed that faith is THE gift of God, but is A gift. Salvation is THE gift of God through Jesus Christ.

The problem as I see it with all cults (And I am sorry, I do consider calvinism to be cultish) is that they go to all sorts of places to prove their doctrines that are not intended to address the subjects in that manner and ignore that God has written books that are for the purpose of expounding the doctrines of the faith.

For instance, how are sinners justified before the cross. Ro 3 and 4. How are sinners justified after the cross Ro 3 & 4 and Ga 2 & 3. It is by believing.

So, here comes a man and speaks of fruit of the Spirit and spiritual gifts for service, empowerments, if you will, and tries to equate that to salvation and make a case from that argument that should be embarrassing for someone who claims to love the word. I am speaking bluntly here because soft words and platitudes will not help this kind of blindness.

I am sorry but "a" gift of God is not the challenge. "THE" gift of God is the challenge because that puts it in the context of salvation. Your examples are in the context of the individual functions of the body of Christ.

Jesus Christ is "THE" son of God. No one else is called "the" son of God. All born again believers are sons of God. Therefore, I am "A" son of God but not "THE" son of God.

The Holy Spirit, who is God and who is salvation is THE gift of God. Faith is not "THE" gift of God although everyone who is saved is saved by faith Ga 3:26. They receive the gift "BY" faith or "through" faith Ep 2:8 to be saved, not "UNTO" faith. The "unto" is in the context of salvation.

Ro 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Eddy Fying wrote:
Heb 11:30 "By faith [human faculty] the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days"
JD if you, as you keep testifying here, that you translate faith as human and not the gift of God.....
Then it's not your theology which troubles me....
It's your english comprehension.
All the verses quoted dispel the myth that faith is of human origin. And what, YOU can't read???
BTW
"He huffed and he puffed and he blew the walls down" - Is a fairy tale JD.

Re 21:8 But the fearful, and UNBELIEVING, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Unbelief is a WORK!

and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

This is really a good question and because of the emphasis of the Lord and the gospel writers, it deserves a good deal of attention, IMO.

http://www.sermonaudio.com/source_detail.asp?sourceid=travis1611

Scroll to the bottom of the page and take a look at the pictures of our street ministry. In one of the pictures, Bro Alltop is holding a banner depicting the cross of Christ and Bro Waylon has a sign that says Christ died for the ungodly. I am across the street taking the pictures and my sign says "whoever you are, Christ died for you". All of us quote aloud Jn 3:16 that says God so loved the world that he sent his only begotten son so the world might believe and not perish.

We believe the world MUST hear this message but for those who are concerned that they may say it to the unelect, I encouage you to not go and preach lest the wrong person hear it and you be condemned.

Whoever you are reading this, Christ died for you and you are invited to take of the water of life freely and without charge. Salvation from God the Father is a gift made possible by the death, burial, and resurrection of his son, Jesus Christ.

I am glad DJC49 brought this subject up. It is an intriguing subject and I have never given much study to it before but I have been looking over it and I notice that it is an important consideration because of the number of times it is used (29) and how the Lord himself was careful to qualify himself as being from Nazareth. He did this even long after the resurrection when he appeared to the desparate Saul on the road to Damascus. Ac 22:8 And I answered, Who art thou, Lord? And he said unto me, I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom thou persecutest. Pilate noted he was from Nazareth when he ordered the crucifixion.

Joh 1:45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.

Nathaniel's response is interesting.

Joh 1:46 And Nathanael said unto him, Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth? Philip saith unto him, Come and see.

The fact remains though that there seems to be no written prophecy in the OT that directly says he will be from Nazareth

You have 12 more days left and I suggest you do a lot better.

The challenge is (It seems you have forgotten what it is) for you to find any verse in scripture saying that faith is the gift of God.

Now, that is your claim.

DJC49 wrote:
Why? Because if you are correct, JD, then there must be a whole bunch of oral sayings and traditions SPOKEN by the prophets which may not have been written in Scripture. Right?

DJC49 wrote:
And Barnes? JD probably never listens to a preacher expound and expand on Bible verses and totally shuns any kind of expository teaching of the same. Right?

Why is it you men have such a problem just believing what is said in the Scriptures. You would much rather take a perfectly plain statement from Scripture that needs no interpretation and roll it around in calvinism dough until the truth of it is obscured!

Eddy Fying wrote:
Faith which is NOT the gift of God is a HUMAN FACULTY. So.
Ro 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his [human faculty] is counted for righteousness

14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of [human faculty]: for whatsoever is not of [human faculty] is sin.
Gal 3:25 But after that [human faculty] is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster
Heb 11:1 Now [human faculty] is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen
Acts 15:9] And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by [human faculty]
Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from [human faculty] to [human faculty] as it is written, The just shall live by [human faculty].
Rom 5:1] Therefore being justified by [human faculty], we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: [2] By whom also we have access by [human faculty] into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
#AND
1Pet 1:9 Receiving the end of your [human faculty], even the SALVATION of your souls.
[Well so JD says anyway]

_

MurrayA wrote:
Your simplicisms in respect of Scripture do you no credit at all, nor do they have any effect on me, despite your facile censures.

Now the most fundamental problem you have is with the person and work of Jesus Christ, making his cross incidental to the election doctrine that does not even exist. I am not going to agree that we divide on doctrines that are not fundamental to the Christian faith.

You do not believe that God loves the world. Jn 3:16
you do not believe that Christ died for ever man. He 2:9 ( It seems you do take He 8-10 literally).
You do not believe that whosoever will can take of the water of life freely and be saved?
You do not believe all those things you cataloged in the last post to me.

DJC49,

It is a grevious error to teach that men are saved in order to believe when the scriptures teach that a man believes to be saved. This, we believe is a fundamental error on your part.

MurrayA wrote:
As I have often replied to you, it's not that I don't believe the Bible; I just don't accept your Dispensational construction.

Do you believe there was an actual rich man in hell in Luke 16? Do you believe God so loves the world in Jn 3:16 and that the world means the same as it does in Jn 3:17 and therefore everyone was the object of his love? Do you believe that Jesus Christ will come to this earth again and rule from Jerusalem and require the nations of the world to observe the feast of Tabernacles as per Ze 14?

Statements in Scripture like these need no interpretation from you and men like you, they need to be believed. The fact that you need to interpret them is a sure sign that you do not believe them.

Many other people are effected by your attitude towards the scriptures. You have touted scholarship and education and knowing how to read Greek & Hebrew as the best way to know doctrine and where has it gotten you? But you have not told anyone to just haul off and believe God.

DJC49 wrote:
My apologies are extented to you, brother J.D. Smith.

Thank you. No offence taken.

I's a poor sinner wrote:
If that bees so, then them poor folk in de OT were not saved because by your own words He was not given until the NT times? They did not need the Spirit to be saved, so what changed in de NT?

If not, are you saying I am misrepresenting the texts? If so, will you please inform me how I am doing it.

If not, are you saying that I am misinterpreting the texts? If you do, will you give me the correct interpretation, please?

About your concerns that I teach two ways of salvation.

The OT believers were JUSTIFIED by faith but the blood of Jesus Christ saved them. The OT saints were not reconciled to God because they were justified, but we are. Therefore being justified by faith we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ Ro 5:1. The common denominator in justification is faith. Not God's faith but our own faith. Compare these two verse, 1 from OT and one from NT

Ro 4:3
Ro 4:23,24

DJC49 wrote:
Being a loyal Dispy, JD, you're true to form! You even see fit to divide the Godhead when the occasion arises! To say that Jesus did NOT so love the world as did the Father is blasphemous insanity.

John wrote this gospel in the mid ninties AD. Christianity had been florishing in the earth for more than 60 years. When he wrote Jn 3:16 he could have written

For the Father so loved the world...but he din't. He said for God so loved the world. I have taken a long time in previous posts to demonstarte how the God-head, the trinity, is involved in every act of God except one. And I have demonstarated how each member of the Godhead also has a particular function in our rede4mption and I submit to you that loving the world is not a particular function of a single member of the Godhead but is a function of the triune God.

For "GOD" so loved the world.

I have more comments on Jn 17 later.

Jesus came to make the Father known.

I will give you two whole weeks to find the sctiptures saying that faith is the gift of God or to apologize to the good folk here for teliing lies like you believe sola scriptura.

Cults do not need for the bible to say things, they need for their founders to say things and then they need the scriptures to prove it. That is why you and others do not need the scriptures to actually say anything about total depravity, and it doesn't, and unconditional election, and it doesn't, and limited atonement, and it doesn't, and irressitible grace, and it doesn't or sovereign grace, and it doesn't, or covenant of works, and it doesn't, or covenant of grace, and it doesn't, or sovereign God, and it doesn't, or original sin, and it doesn't, or invisible church, and it doesn't, and on and on infinitum.

DJC49 wrote:
JD,
Yours is a silly exercise in futility and absurdity since no one here has claimed that the word *world* used in John 17 carries the meaning of *the elect* in any of its usages.

However, It is God who loved the world. The functions of the Godhead must be noted. It is not said that the Father so loved the world or that Jesus Christ so loved the world, it is said that God so loved the world that he sent his only begotten son to the perishing world that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but might be saved.

He that believes will be saved, not he who is elect shall be saved. This is the promise of God.

Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

Joh 16:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

World is used 19 times in 14 verses in Jn 17. Earth is used one time but it sets the meaning for world.

Joh 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the elect (world) was.

Joh 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the elect (world),

Joh 17:11 And now I am no more in the elect (world), but these are in the elect (world),

Joh 17:14 I have given them thy word; and the elect (world) hath hated them, because they are not of the elect (world), even as I am not of the elect (world).

Joh 17:16 They are not of the elect (world), even as I am not of the elect (world).

Joh 17:18 As thou hast sent me into the elect (world), even so have I also sent them into the elect (world).

Mike wrote:
Faith is not THE gift. Salvation is.(Eph 2:8)

THE gift of God is clearly stated. It is salvation, it is the Spirit of God who is salvation.

Acts 2:38b and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acs 10 because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

I have already proven that God is life, the Holy Spirit is God and he that has the son has life.

Joh 4:10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

The water is the Spirit!

Joh 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given because Jesus was not yet glorified.