quote wrote:
I didn't realize we were discussing evangelization on this thread. Most of the comments on here lately have been about debating doctrine.

When you talk about doctrine, these would have to be included in the discussion.

There is effectual calling, justification, sanctification, the attributes of God, creation, the fall, and on and on and on.

What say you on doctine that does not include the above?

A person's understanding doctrine will not justify him in the day of Christ Jesus. It is trust in the finished work of Jesus Christ, alone, that will save us.

Contender wrote:
DefenderofTruth,
Free-will/Arminianism denies that it is God through the Holy Spirit who quickens the sinner, the sinner being dead in trespasses and sins, grants them faith and repentance, and makes them new creatures in Christ Jesus. They claim and even boast to have faith and repentance of their own free-will and cooperate with God in their salvation. It is a man-centered works religion.

I did not ever state that to share the gospel the people must submit to Calvinism.

quote wrote:
"Chuck Smith Is Ecumenical: In his 1993 book, Answers For Today, Smith says the following:What a glorious day when we discover that God loves the Baptists! -- And the Presbyterians, and the Methodists, and the Catholics. We're all His and we all belong to Him. We see the whole Body of Christ, and we begin to strive together rather than striving against one another" (p. 157).

quote wrote:
Our theology (doctrine) does not save us but it does show us what one believes regarding Christ and His Word whether it be truth or error.
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
(2Jn 1:9-11)

"Another gospel" would be one that poses as Christianity and denies the atoning work of Christ for man's sin, or would add to the work of Christ, or would deny the deity of Christ, etc.

People like Rick Warren with his social gospel, and Joel Osteen, with his man-centered philosophy are teaching "another gospel", but not those who place the emphasis on man's obedience to the call to "Repent and believe," as does one who holds to Arminianism.

We do not share the gospel by telling people they have to submit to Calvinism. It is merely a way to sum up what we believe so that the hearer will understand where we are coming from. Then, we do not have to reiterate our theology every time we share a point.

The thief on the cross didn't have time to study doctrine. He recognized his own sinfulness. He acknowledged Jesus' wrongful death. He believed what Jesus said, "Today, you will be with me in paradise."

I learned Scripture over many years, before I looked at Calvinism and Arminianism. The reason that Calvinism fits my understanding - primarily - is because I understand that sin is not just something one does, it is our very nature to sin - and that is not just an act - it is intent, and omission. So, total depravity makes sense. I am born sinful, dead to God.

I also know those who have walked an aisle, prayed a prayer, etc., declaring their salvation, and their lives show no evidence of humility.

I know those who are religious - moral, who show no evidence of genuine love for God or man.

In difficult doctrinal matters, may we have gracious attitudes and humble hearts, desiring most of all to please Him who has called us to serve Him in the body of Christ. Discussion -YES! Disagreements -YES! Division - NO!

Seek those things that produce the loving nature of Jesus in our lives.

Understanding God's Sovereignty, enabled me to understand the world.

Most of us start our walk with the Lord with simple trust, unable to define the great doctrines. It is "line upon line, precept upon precept, a little here, a little there."

Correct theology is important for our growth in the Lord, but we are brought into His kingdom by the Spirit.

Col 3:14 says, "And beyond all these things put on love, which is the perfect bond of unity. And let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, to which indeed you were called in one body; and be thankful. Let the word of Christ richly dewell within you, with all wisdom teaching and admonishing one another with psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with thankfulness in your hearts to God."

Correct theology is not enough, is it? We must be born again, and that will be evidenced by "love of the brethren." No one is perfect in his/her understanding of Scripture. It is not what we know, but Who we know.

It was the Pharisee whom Jesus condemned the very ones who professed righteousness and kept external rituals. It was the Samaritan, a virtual outcast in proper Jewish society who demonstrated love to his neighbor - right?

Micah 6:8 ". . .what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?"

Let's go back to the parable of the seed and sower. The soil is the heart of the unredeemed person. The Holy Spirit "tills the soil" with the conviction of sin, through the "preaching of the word." The seed (word of God) is planted in the soil, some of which is deeply plowed (by the Spirit of the Lord), and other of which has not been plowed. (The same sun that hardens clay, softens wax.) Both may show growth, initially, but the seed planted in the good soil, that which God has cultivated, will not wither and die, but will produce much fruit.

1 Cor 3:6,7 "I planted, Apollos watered, but God was causing the growth. So then neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but God who causes the growth."

For those who have be regenerated, brought to life spiritually, the enemy is not your brother in Christ who has a different understanding of the order of salvation. "In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty, and in all things, charity."

Did you read the link yesterday to Spurgeon's message? That is the best discourse concerning these issues of God's Sovereignty and our responsibility.

Other people on this thread have defended these truths better than I have. So, I think anything further is redundant.

For the record: I believe that Salvation is of God. The work of the Holy Spirit is to convict the sinner of their sin and their need of repentance. Faith is given by the Father, is purchased by the Son's atoning work on the cross, and is sealed by the giving of the Holy Spirit, who resides in the Believer as the Teacher of Truth, and is active in the ongoing work of sanctification in making us like Christ.

We believe that salvation is of God, provided by Him through the atoning work of Jesus on the Cross - that it is a GIFT of God, that He uses conviction of sin, and repentance as a means of Grace, that He gives us the faith to believe - and, we do not separate them out, but take them as a whole.

As to salvation being an event - that might describe any religion - or even the Catholic Church which believes that baptism at birth places one in the family of God.

The process of sanctification would describe the work of the Spirit in the life of the Believer to make him/her like Christ. The moment of "being born again" may be remarkable if one was a murderer, persecutor, as was Paul, or it may be one where like John, Jesus led him into the knowledge of the Truth. No specific moments were recorded in Scripture of any saying, "Now, I repent and will follow the Lord Jesus Christ." Rather, it was Jesus saying, "Follow me. I will make you fishers of men."

There are those who look at God as the source of everything. Then, there are those who see man determining his own destiny.

No one is saying that Believers do not hear the word of God, do not come under conviction for sin, do not repent, do not have faith. The divide is between those who look at everything as a gift, and those who think the "having" is in the "taking" - walking down an aisle, saying a little prayer with all the right words.

If we read our Bibles with God as "High and lifted up". .Isa 55:9 says, "For My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My ways, declares the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than earth, so are My ways higher than you ways, and My thoughts than your thoughts."

JD I have assurance of my salvation through the Word and through the Spirit. A Damascus road moment did not happen to me, but a gradual leading from childhood to adulthood, being taught the Word, having a lineage of those whose faith was in the Lord, and evidence of that being lives lived in obedience to God and a display of the fruit of the Spirit - love, joy, peace, patience, goodness, kindness, gentleness, faithfulness, self-control.

I, too, fully trust in the provision made for me by God through Jesus Christ, His work of atonement on the cross, the witness of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, and the Scriptures written and passed down that "I may have that assurance."

I think it is better to let Scripture address Scripture as Mike from NY used the verses to counter the verses that I had previously used to show God's "choosing."

Praise God that He ". .is gracious to whom He is gracious, and has compassion on whom He chooses to have compassion. ."Ex. 33:19 And, I am one whom He has chosen to do so.

2 Peter 1:10 "Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His CALLING and CHOOSING you; .."

Scripture is full of God's calling, choosing. Believe it or not, it is God's message.

Isaiah 42:1 "Behold, My Servant, whom I uphold; My CHOSEN one in whom My soul delights. I have put My Spirit upon Him; . ."

Isaiah 45:4 "For the sake of Jacob My servant, and Israel My CHOSEN One, I have also called you by your name: I have given you a title of honor though you have not known Me. (And here is the clincher) I am the LORD, and there is not other; besides Me there is no God. I will gird you, THOUGH YOU HAVE NOT KNOWN ME; THAT MEN MAY KNOW FROM THE RISING TO THE SETTING OF THE SUN THAT THERE IS NO OTHER."

And that is the reason JD - to make Himself known.

Salvation is of the Lord, and if it were not, then a child or a mentally challenged person could not be saved because he/she would have to understand repentance first.

When the rich ruler went away sorrowful - who had just declared that he had kept all of the commandments - the disciples asked Jesus "Who then can be saved?" Jesus said, "With men it is impossible, but with God all things are possible." So, even when we possess eternal life, we cannot fully explain the miracle of it.

I don't think you are teachable concerning this, or maybe you just like to argue.