DJC's Nothing wrote:
Daddy (A.K.A. Yamil)

Must've been my unanswerable and eloquent commentaries that gave it away.

DJC's Nothing wrote:
mwa...mwa...mwahhh...First you have Jesus "dying for the world" somewhere in John 3:16-19, and now you have Paul receiving DAILY mentoring from the incarnate Christ for 3 YEARS in the middle of the desert in Galatians 1.
mwa...mwa...mwahhh...

1. World means elect.
2. All means elect.
3. Whosoever means elect.
4. None means elect.

... I can understand he also failing to see anything that is clearly stated in Scripture.

DJC49 wrote:
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Silly Yamil! "Splitting the Red Sea" ... that's a knee-slapper; and you're probably thinking of Noah anyway.
And someone's been doing some heavy eisegesis! Tell me more about Paul being mentored everyday by Jesus incarnate for 3 years in the middle of the desert, Yam. Somehow I missed that section in the NT. Perhaps it's in the Apocrypha. Or maybe in the Pseudoepigrapha somewhere. Or in the Gospel of Judas ...

DJC's Nothing wrote:
mwa..mwa mwa...
Please point out where in John 3:16-19 there's ANY mention whatsoever of Christ dying for the world.
mwa...mwa..mwahhh

It certainly does not state "For God so loved an elect few..."

I wrote:
I tell you what, son, you find me a place in the Scripture where it states any such idea that faith can be a work and then I will take your "not receivn truth from the Scripture" to heart.

The Con wrote:
I ask you, where does your faith come from?... mwa.. mwa... mwahhhh

DJC49 wrote:
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You'd make an excellent used car salesman, Yam. mwa... mwa... mwahhh

Con Artist wrote:
Texts like "As is Adam all died so in Christ all shall be made alive" are often misuses. The first all means every single human being, for every man was represented by Adam and fell in Adam. the second all CANNOT mean every single human being as it is patently obvious that not everyone is made alive.

I maintain that all always means all. You maintain that all changes meanings from the beginning of a sentence to the end. And this definition can only be found in the figment of the Calvinist's imagination.

DJC49 wrote:
Terrific (cough) explanation, "Daddy."
However, there's but one problem:
Your proof-text [John 3:16-19] STILL doesn't confirm that JESUS DOES NOT GET WHAT HE PAID FOR. ... mwa..mwa...mwahhh

It cannot get any more clear than that.

If you are unjustly looking for that same exact phrase, then you are providing a silly criteria that you yourself can never meet.

Minnow wrote:
I think your problem is in receiving the truth from Scripture.
If "by grace" THEN is it NOT by works originating in the sinner. There is only two possibilities here. By teaching faith is a human contribution required of God, then you are introducing a human "do" factor unto salvation. That is not what the Bible teaches.

Minnow wrote:
I think your problem is in receiving the truth from Scripture.
If "by grace" THEN is it NOT by works originating in the sinner. There is only two possibilities here. By teaching faith is a human contribution required of God, then you are introducing a human "do" factor unto salvation. That is not what the Bible teaches.

Yes, seriously. I take that accusation very to the heart, because there is nothing more precious to me than that Book.

Minnow wrote:
If you want a "piece of the action" then what the arminian/synergist does is change the definition of the word "work" as applied to faith originating from human source.

1. Jesus paid the price for the whole world.

2. Only those that are condemned are condemned based on their rejection of the light.

That would've been a good time to wax eloquent on the justice of God behind unconditional election, but he states nothing of that sort. In fact, no where in the Bible does it state anything of that sort.

You guys keep jumping around from verse to verse and from topic to topic only to dig a bigger hole for yourselves.

The sad thing is that your arguments are never really based on the accuracy of the statments of the scriptures but rather it is purely based on logical deductions.

DJC49 wrote:
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Jesus does not get everything that He paid for?
Now where do you find THAT concept in Scripture?... mwa...mwa..mwahhhh

If I were a Calvinist, that would be the end of my answer. But since I am much more than a Calvinist, then I will give you a more specific answer.

John 3:16-19 wrote:
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Yes, it is indeed a sad commentary that Jesus does not get everything that he paid for, but that is not a reflection on the efficacy of the blood of Jesus but a reflection of the depravity of man. Just because God paid the sin penalty, does not mean that a person has to accept that payment. The Bible gives no such caricature where men have no choice but to choose God. In fact the Bible paints a complete different picture.

I was refering to your putting an answer in my mouth that I would never give.

After reading your post, I am starting to like you. I appreciate well thoughout inquiries rather than the pontifications and strawman that lends itself to ridicule.

I would have to agree that our disagreement begins in your 4th point.

Now to answer your question. Jesus Christ's propitiated the sins of the whole world. That is clearly stated in Scripture. Jesus Christ did not get everything he paid for because God the Father offers that propitiation as a gift to the world but some decide to receive it, and some unfortunately reject it.

Propitiation is a gift paid to God on the part of the sinner upon which the sinner can appropriate it by faith or reject it.

....

Well, I am glad to know that you are at least digressing.

I wonder... wrote:
Is Christ pleased with this constant bickering, belittling one another, or with the sarcasm spewed out here; is this being good stewards of our time? What happened to the command to love one another? "By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another" John 13:35 Where is the humility? May God have mercy on us. If an unbeliever were to stumble on this site, they would be just is saying 'hypocrites'.

Bernard wrote:
Who is the payment made to?
You would argue that the payment is made to the sinner! That it is the sinner that can accept or reject the payment! Christ paid the price to God for the propiation of sins.

oh, and of course, he must've split the Red Sea open and received the doctrines of Grace straight from the lips of the Lord on top of a mountain somewhere.

Most would be appalled to have a baby Christian try to teach them, but I guess in those times, it did not matter so long as you had a doctorate from the RCC.

The irony of it all is that they call us papist for rejecting a doctrine like Calvinism that has its roots well founded in the RCC.