Chosen before the world began.
Predestinated according to the will and purpose of God.
Gathered together in Christ.
Adopted into His inheritance.

Eph 1:4 "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will"

Quote
"At the secret meeting in London last month, which was hosted by veteran broadcaster Sue Lawley, BBC executives admitted the corporation is dominated by homosexuals and people from ethnic minorities, deliberately promotes multiculturalism, is anti-American, anti-countryside and more sensitive to the feelings of Muslims than Christians."

Quote
"One veteran BBC executive said: 'There was widespread acknowledgement that we may have gone too far in the direction of political correctness."

'Unfortunately, much of it is so deeply embedded in the BBC's culture, that it is very hard to change it.'"
(Daily Mail Oct 2006)

I assume this means in his mind, that people go to church depending on the shape, style or age of the building.
Now thats an intelligent theory.

So if the Lord comes up with the right architectural design then the membership will increase???

1Cor 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

Eph 5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

Oh dear those "irrational Christians"
How did we get into the debate?

As God has recorded for us....

Heb 11:3 "Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear."

"Blair's speech at the cathedral is meant to herald the opening of the Tony Blair Faith Foundation, the goals of which are to "promote respect, friendship and understanding between the major religious faiths".
But Blair's efforts to promote religion as a positive force in the world, has met with open derision from Christians in Britain who watched for ten years as he and his government "plunged Britain into an ethical abyss."

And he's going to rescue religion too...

"But it has to be rescued on the one hand from the extremist and exclusionary tendency within religion today; and on the other from the danger that religious faith is seen as an interesting part of history and tradition but with nothing to say about the contemporary human condition," he continued."

Mike wrote:
And *whosoever* liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
Apparently a hard concept to lay hold of. If only some would at least try to understand the meaning of “whosoever”

The mere fact that these words qualify a specific group "out of" the world identifies what we are saying. That Jesus did not die for "everybody"

Therefore
Did God and Jesus "know" who the sheep were?

John 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know MY SHEEP, and am known of mine.
15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down *MY LIFE* = FOR *THE SHEEP.*

Alternatively

Jn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

= "Believers" only

Matt 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save HIS PEOPLE from their sins.

= Only His people shall be saved.

Matt 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for MANY.

Not "all"
Not "everybody"
Only "many"

Sola Scriptura wrote:
Some resist God's advances

I guess Paul's job will be with the Gentiles as opposed to judging the tribes.

Rom 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

1Tim 2:7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.

Who's doing the driving??

For the Arminians it is a generalisation - an if, but or maybe.

"Let there be no misunderstanding at this point. The Arminian limits the atonement as certainly as does the Calvinist. The Calvinist limits the extent of it in that he says it does not apply to all persons (although as has already been shown, he believes that it is efficacious for the salvation of the large proportion of the human race); while the Arminian limits the power of it, for he says that in itself it does not actually save anybody. The Calvinist limits it quantitatively, but not qualitatively; the Arminian limits it qualitatively, but not quantitatively. For the Calvinist it is like a narrow bridge which goes all the way across the stream; for the Arminian it is like a great wide bridge which goes only half-way across. As a matter of fact, the Arminian places more severe limitations on the work of Christ than does the Calvinist."(Boettner)

Oh Brother!!
Sometimes these people make you sick.
BBC radio frequently does a "Thought for the day" It is supposed to be "religious" Over the years it has become less and less Christian more and more muslim. These guys think Ben Hur is a religious movie.

And now he thinks he's an expert on faith and religion.

"Tony Blair said last night that religion must be rescued from extremism and irrelevance and used as a force"

"rescued from extremism"???
Is he looking through the spectacles of muslim activities here? And expects to find "Truth" perhaps.

"irrelevance" Now I wonder what this term means to someone hopping between irrelevant dogmas?? I suppose Tony will teach us how???

"used as a force" Oh are we back to muslim again? Tony my dear fellow since when did you "use" real religion as anything never mind a force. When man "uses" religion - he demonstrates that he is not used of God.

True or false?

The fallen sinner due to the state of sin he finds himself born into, has lost all the ability of will to make any spiritual step towards Christ. He is dead in sin unable to believe or take a step of faith unto Christ.

As per...

John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for WITHOUT ME YE CAN DO NOTHING.

Rom 8:7 "Because the carnal mind is ENMITY AGAINST GOD: for it is NOT SUBJECT to the LAW of God, NEITHER INDEED CAN BE"

Rom 3:10 "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is NONE THAT UNDERSTANDETH, there is NONE THAT SEEKETH after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is NONE THAT DOETH good, no, not one."

Col 2:13 "And you, being *DEAD* in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath *HE QUICKENED* together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses"

1Cor 2:14 "But the natural man RECEIVETH NOT the things of the Spirit of God: for they are FOOLISHNESS unto him: NEITHER can he KNOW them, BECAUSE they are spiritually discerned"

JD wrote:
Faulty reasoning. Salvation is not about overcoming sin, it is about believing God.

Arminian philosophy establishes the principle that man can overcome sin/depravity on his own ability.
BUT
In the same breath states that the same sin/depravity prevents man from coming to seek salvation???

This is theological sophistry.

If that which prevents the sinner can be overcome by him, then it is non sequitur to suggest that he can overcome sin of his own volition.
Clearly he did NOT overcome.

I thought the Anglicans had already institutionalised schism.

Jim Lincoln wrote:
Ah hmmm, Minnow, what about that state church of Scotland?

JD wrote:
Christ died for every man He 2:9
Christ died for all 2 Co 5:14,15
Christ died for the whole world 1 Jo 2:2

If Christ died to procure salvation for everybody then [a] it failed and [b] God only "partially" accepted His death?

WHY?

The JD/Arminian solution

Man can overcome depravity/sin to choose salvation in christ. But some do NOT make the correct choice because of depravity/sin.

Eehh Hang on I'll try again.

The sinner has the ability to overcome inherent sin thus enabling him to choose Christ. But refuses to do so because inherent sin prevails and disappoints his choice.???

Nooo thats not it, I'll try this JD'ism again.

Christ can be chosen by the sinner unto salvation because the sinner can overcome sin all by himself. But the reason why Christ's death didn't work for everybody, is that the overcome sin, in the sinner who didn't come to Christ is overcome by his sin.???