First tell me what "alchohol" is, and then I'll let you know .....But as far as alcohol is concerned, after a few drinks, I have NO stance at all!
(that's a joke, son!)
Something to think about if one is in great pain & no anesthetics or painkillers are available, which was often the case over a century ago.
or it could be you with too high an opinion of youself and your theological banter and finese! Ever consider that ron? Maybe you are wrong and refuse to acknowledge your error that you are forcing on others your non-essential doctrine of abstinence and adding it unto salvation then defending it with all your might???? could it be maybe you have bought the presupposition of your upbringing and theological teaching of pet doctrines similiar to certain areas of religion??? maybe you should consider it for certainly better men than you and me have trodded this subject in times past! Maybe you can look at some of the Great Pillars of the Faith and their testimony on the subject and come to the conclusion that some had your view and mostly, beyond the 20th century, it was widely accepted that moderation was the command and be not drunk or decieved by the spirits? Do a little study and you will find men you admire have a different stance on this issue than yours!
no you didn't you attempted to show that abstinence is commanded in scripture and you failed miserably! You cannot prove abstinence is commanded, you would have a good case for being drunken Because the Word of God specifically commands us to be sober and not drunk!
No, I am not accusing Jesus of deceiving. Read that passage in John 2. The people were well drunk when Jesus made the wine. Well drunk does not mean intoxicating in that passage. I will prove it. When one gets drunk, the taste buds are not the same.
The governor said the 'best wine' was saved for last. He was not expecting alcoholic wine, nor could they have been intoxicated as many try to say. If he were intoxicated, his senses would have been dulled and he would not have been able to distinguish that it was the 'best wine'. The wine that was drunk at the wedding feast before the miracle could not have been intoxicating. If the wine had been intoxicating, and they had 'well drunk' and Jesus had made more, He would have contributed to drunkenness which God's Word tells us it is a sin. The drunkard will not enter heaven. Gal 5:19 - 21.
"And, oh yes, Jesus called people hateful, he called them hypocrites, he called them many things in revealing their sin."
If that is calling names, then you may as well say it is God calling the names, not me. For I have spoken through His Word.
And, oh yes, Jesus called people hateful, he called them hypocrites, he called them many things in revealing their sin.
You have made accusation after accusation concerning my salvation, the salvation of others all based on their different view of the supposed command of abstinence which is not biblical! The command is be not drunk with wine. You can't make blanket statements like "if you believe it is ok to have a glass of wine a day, you are not saved because the Holy Spirit convicts and chastises those who are saved so since you aren't being convicted and chastised, you must be lost" what a bunch of nonsense!
there you go with your attacks again. Nowhere did I call anyone names. I never have called anyone names in any of these threads.
According to some expert opinions on fermentation. The grapes begin to ferment almost immediately after picking. At what point is this a sin to consume?
