John UK wrote:
Did you find anywhere in the old testament any teaching about a need to be born from above? Sure you didn't.
Do you know how many old testament saints were filled with the Holy Ghost in just the same way that new testament saints are filled? Sure you don't.
Will you have a go at me, for putting all this in front of your eyes? Sure you will.

NO!!
Of course I would'nt.
I'm a nice Calvinist.
I'm not like some of these 'airy ticks that we sometinmes get around 'ere.

I tell you what John.
I will appeal to your famous erudite theological expertise on the matter and ask you a simple little question.

What precisely was the Holy Spirit doing during the OT period lets make it easy for you and narrow it down to say 4000 years.

Was the spiritual realm on strike at this time? Was there any spiritual movement in the world back then?

Did He for example holiday in Acapulco the whole time improving His tan, - or was there something else He found to do leaving the poor sinner to vegetate in his wretched estate?

John UK wrote:
Now there's a thing.
I always thought the saints in the old testament were NOT indwelt by the Holy Spirit.

John UK wrote:
Are you telling me that the Holy Ghost went around each of the million or two Israelites compelling this one to make the right decision, that one to make the wrong decision, this one to make.....

.... Why go to all that trouble when the unregenerate will always reject God

Michael Hranek wrote:
In response to your statement above -
What if faith is not a human but God given pre-conversion "faculty"?

ONLY the Elect get the gift of saving Faith.

DJC49 wrote:
Is *Mercy* one of the divine attributes of God?
Caveat: Don't be so quick with your answer.

Ex 33:19 And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will SHEW MERCY on whom I WILL shew MERCY.

Luke 1:58 And her neighbours and her cousins heard how the LORD had shewed great MERCY upon her; and they rejoiced with her.

Ps 103:17 But the mercy of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;

Titus 1:4 To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, MERCY and peace, FROM God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.

John UK wrote:
Okay fill me in with what you think about the state of these Israelites: were they God's people? Redeemed? Purchased by Christ? Regenerated? All filled with the Spirit? All in heaven now? Or did old testament saints have to make decisions without the Spirit?

So not everybody back then got onto the winning team. Only those elected by God.

Then he said
Romans 9:11 "....that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

So nobody had to pick the right lottery number. Just like today they were elected by God to salvation, or paid for their sins the hard way.

Mike wrote:
So if the rich young man had agreed with Jesus to sell his riches and follow him, that would have been a spiritual decision. But since he rejected the offer, and wanted to keep his riches, he made a non-spiritual decision? This is getting confusinger.
What do you think? Was the rich man one of the elect?

Mike are you trying to establish doctrine by conjecture - conflation or contingency?

"Was he elect" - Jesus apparently didn't think so. Thats good enough for me.

I anticipated your question Mike.

John UK wrote:
One from the old and one from the new
Two examples that I think

A verse from the OT where Joshua speaks of Covenant renewal to the Israelites - "IS" the same as free willicker decision process??
I don't think so.

Flogging a dead carrot 'ere John.

Trying to re-establish the age old heresy of faith as a pre-conversion human faculty of intellectual assent by the sinner to cooperate with God unto salvation.
This of course is the age old RC Arminian DIY save thyself.

Even the heretic Wesley tried to stick in a wee bit of grace to make this work out.

As for King Agrippa - Get a grippa here John?
The old Arminians at least brought more accurate verses that at least tried to stay in context. eg Luk 17:25. Try that one John.

Pharisee/RCC/Arminian/F.Willer always try to insert man into the process to the exclusion of God.
The idea that the sinner in his natural estate sat down and pondered the Scripture doctrines with a view to stimulate the brain cells into accept/reject salvation in Christ - whilst overcoming the domain of sin is sheer fiction and fallacy.

Thumbs Up wrote:
Can you point me to where John UK said

Watchman wrote:
I was not speaking of the writers of the Confessions - only those who use them as their basis for understanding Scripture.

Watchman wrote:
The problem with those who so often quote a "confession of faith" is that they never learned the Word of God FIRST. They were not saved by hearing the Word, searching the Scriptures, being given wisdom and understanding of Scripture by the teaching of the Holy Spirit.

Thumbs up wrote:
Did Pewview apologise to John UK?

This whole discussion commenced with John delivering the heresy that Justification needs to be supported by human works.

The TRUTH of course is

John UK wrote:
Later on, I'll prove to you what Spurgeon ACTUALLY believed about the extent of the atonement, sure I will.

John UK wrote:
Many English Baptists (Strict Baptist) prefer the term 'Particular Redemption' because the expression 'Limited Atonement' is misleading, unbiblical and dishonouring to our Lord Jesus Christ. Spurgeon was one such.

First today we have John UK teaching that Christ is insufficient and justification by necessary works has replaced the Crucified Christ!

Now we see the disinformation of the Papist/Arminian free willer being introduced into Biblical doctrine, by the suggestion that GOD cannot apply His Son's Atonement - only to those whom HE chose/elected before the foundation of the world.

But both these heresies (see Canons of Dordt) tie in together. If John can manage to reject the teaching of the application of GOD's choice alone, - to His Son's Atonement; - THEN you are required to introduce further "means" of salvation eg: works to justify the sinner before God???

In this cunning disinformation John UK is like John Yurich trying to bring some credibility to the RCC, whilst claiming to be born again.

John UK wrote:
1] Also, because justification is ALWAYS accompanied by GOOD WORKS, the Bible can say that justification is by works also.

2] like the flower people who claim L because the TU.IP doctrines logically demand it.

2] No wonder John can't see the truth of Limited Atonement. He wants human works to justify the sinner before God!

Q70: What is justification?

A70: Justification is an *ACT of GOD's FREE GRACE* unto sinners,[1] in which he pardoneth all their sins, accepteth and accounteth their persons righteous in his sight;[2] *NOT* for any thing wrought in them, OR DONE BY THEM,[3] but only for the perfect obedience and full satisfaction of CHRIST, by God IMPUTED to them,[4] and received by faith alone.[5]

1] Rom 3:22, 24-25; 4;5
2] II Cor 5:19, 21; Rom 3:22-25, 27-28
3] Titus 3:5, 7; Eph 1:7
4] Rom 4:6-8; 5:17-19
5] Acts 10:43; Gal 2:16; Phil 3:9

OR
"UK benefits from the legalised murder of a child"

United Kingdom of Sodom and Gomorah strikes again.

Matt 11:24 But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.

Luke 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

When the True Church leaves this island - then brimstone......

Forget the Bible???

I suppose the next ludicrous advert will say Jesus was an atheist.

Since he works for the BBC, who claimed in 2006 to be anti-Christian and pro-muslim, (not to mention run by homosexuals), then Vine would probably be sacked if he claimed any specific Christian allegiance on air.

Baloney!!

This is strictly LIBERAL agenda.

The fundamental principles of sixteenth century Protestantism included the following:

# Soli deo Gloria
the justification of God's wisdom and power against papal usurpation and manmade religion, honoring God's sovereign transcendence and providential predestination.

# Sola Gratia
redemption as God's free gift accomplished by Christ's saving death and resurrection

# Sola Scriptura
the freedom of Scripture to rule as God's word in the church, disentangled from papal and ecclesiastical magisterium and tradition

# The Church as the Believing People of God
constituted not by hierarchy, succession, or institution, but God's election and calling in Christ through the gospel

# The Priesthood of All Believers
the privileged freedom of all the baptized to stand before God in Christ "without patented human intermediaries" and their calling to be bearers of judgment and grace as "little Christs" to their neighbors.