1Sa 13:14 But now thy (Saul's) kingdom shall not continue: the LORD hath sought him a man after his own heart, and the LORD hath commanded him [to be] captain over his people, because thou hast not kept [that] which the LORD commanded thee.

The Spirit then came upon David in the context of his anointing as King.

1Sa 16:13 Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in the midst of his brethren: and the Spirit of the LORD came upon David from that day forward.

And the Spirit left Saul!

1Sa 16:14 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.

It is in this context one must read David's prayer in Ps 51:11

Ps 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

Now, please, It would be silly for our Lord Jesus Christ to have spoken to believers in the fashion of Jn 7:38,39, promising them the inwelling Spirit "after he is glorified" IF HE ALREADY INDWELT THEM! And the language of JN 14-16 concerning Christ sending him to indell his disciples and all believers after his return to heaven would make no sense if he was already present and indelling them.
Deal with this subject and we will go on to another.

There is one people of God, elect from before the foundation of the world, redeemed by the blood of the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world, who paid for ALL the sins of ALL His people from past to future.
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Really, one should find a place where the Scripures actually says that before they quote it as sound doctrine.

Here is what it does say:

1Jo 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the whole world.

1Ti 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

Ro 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

In case you do not know who the ungodly are, they are the saved people prior to their believing.

Ro 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Dr. Phil wrote:
"This is the WORK OF GOD, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent." Jn. 6:29
The Spirit was involved in the work of God in the OT and Jesus defined the work of God in the New. Faith is the work of God not man.

Why do think the language of Scripture in every place that God tells us how to be saved rebukes your position on salvation?

Ro 4:24
But for us also, to whom it (righteousness) shall be imputed, IF we believe on him (God) that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead.

Discerning Believer wrote:
JD, no one is changing the subject. We are still dealing with the ministry of the Holy Spirit in salvation. If the new testament believers were saved by the regeneration of the new birth and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and the old testament believers were not, then you must conclude that God has two different plans of salvation. That is the point I am trying to make.

John writes these words:

Dr. Phil wrote:
To say that the Holy Spirt did not work in the lives of the OT saints prior to the cross is to deny Psalm 51:11 where David prayed that the Holy Spirit be not taken from him. When John 7:39 speaks of the Holy Spirit not yet given, it must be in the sense of Him being poured out as in Acts.

"When John 7:39 speaks of the Holy Spirit not yet given, it must be in the sense of Him being poured out as in Acts."
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DB,
You are still refusing to answer the specifics of my arguments and are tyring to change the subject. The true doctrine of the Holy Spirit will put false theology to death and I think that, deep down, you all know it.

However, to answer your question above. God is a spirit and of course he had a spiritual relationship with Israel. However the OT ministry was not God, the son, or God the Spirit, but God the Father. That does not mean that the trinitarian God did not show up in the OT but each of the Godhead has his own ministry on the earth. God was king of Israel and he said so when he told Samuel that they had not rejected him but God.

You have been at least the greatest critic of me as a dispensationalist as anyone here and have offered the least amount of biblical reasoning, which is saying something.
Now I don't mind your criticism of me as a dispensationalist but I do mind your dishonesty. I have not said I believe the verses concerning the Holy Spirit because it fits into my dispensational syatem, I have said I believe them because they make sense to believe them. I can logically conclude that God has not given the Holy Spirit to indwell men by the words he spoke in John 7:38,39 because they cannot mean anything else to me, or to a calvinist, or to an atheist. They mean what they say! Dispensationalism has nothing to do with it. I have read John 14-16 where my Lord gives much more information about his coming and I have read the NT and I know and believe what he says about him. These are the verses I have been dealing with here and I have not promoted dispensaionalism.

It would not matter if I took your position as a calvinist, it would not change what Jesus Christ said about giving the Spirit to indwell men in John 7:38,39. It would not change Acts 2 where he was given with much fan-fare. It would not change what Paul the apostle said about him in Romans 8.

You men do not deny the doctrine of the Holy Spirit because you are not dispensationalists, and I do not know why you do.

It is sad to me to see preachers on here who are charged with promoting their religion but who cannot define the characteristic of the age they live in.
This is the age of the Spirit of God. He is here on the earth. He was poured out on Israel in Acts 2, and on the nations in Acts 10. John the Baptist in Mt 3:11, Jesus Christ in Acts 1:5, and Peter in Acts 11:16,17 all said this pouring out is a baptism of the Spirit. I say that too!

Icon O'Clast wrote:
What we have JD, is not an inability to understand you or be instructed by you, but an ability to discern truth from error and dispensationalism is the height of error. It was designed and espoused by uneducated and uninstructed people and only survived because one of them had the arrogance to publish his own version of the Bible with his own ideas interspersed in it.

Is this different than OT believers?

Joh 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth;

I want to thank you men for your participation and the relatively cival manner by which you conducted yourselves. It presented a good opportunity for me to sharpen my sword.

Dr. Phil wrote:
Not a problem for those who understand John 3:3

I am supposing from his statement that Jn 3:3 provides the answer and that he understands it.

I have read your comments and think I can safely say that each of you have rejected my instruction to you. That is sad for me because I would have liked for you to present examples of men who were called sons of God and passages where we are told OT believers were regenerated and had the permanent indwelling Spirit of God in their bosom and I would have liked for you to have answered my questions why the Holy Spirit became the focus of the activities of the Godhead after the cross where our sins were put away and where men are invited to receive him and the speech now is about being born again of the Spirit and eternal life, but, alas, you launched some verses that proved none of your contentions. Well, such is religion without the Spirit, I suppose. I could not help but notice that the verses that were irrelevant to the subject that you gentlemen quoted to one another was a source of encouragement to you as you revelled in your non answers and rejoiced in your continued ignoring of the facts, the language, and the obvious.

The nation Israel was said to be the wife of Jehovah God. Read Hosea. In this sense the offspring of this nation are the sons and daughers of God and it is in that sense that you should make the application. It has nothing to do with being born of the Spirit and all the sons and all the daughters of this nation are his. I could on with this and prove it beyond a doubt but I am not into wasting my time.

If you really think your quote is speaking of a born again relationship with God, then I rest my case with you as one who is unreasonable. I have dealt with that already and I am looking for the Spirit of God to birth one into the family of God in the OT. This does not do the job.
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Someone said these words!

Their sacrifices and rituals were symbols of the Greater Sacrifice to come (even if they didn't have knowledge of it), whereas the NT saints are looking backwards in time (post-Christ) at the Sacrifice that has already taken place (via baptism)
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What about Naaman, the Syrian, and Neb, the Babylonian who did not have the law and all other gentiles who were saved in the history before the cross?

I appreciate your frustration. You have probably never been called upon to defend your peculiar doctrines in this manner but I assure you I do not mean it for anything but for your good. Therefore, I am attempting to rason with you out of the Scriptures and nothing I have said is false.

Now, lets review your response.

You said

Saints are those who are "set apart."
They are set apart by God; by the Holy Spirit. This setting apart is also known as sanctification -- wrought by the Holy Spirit. Saints are, by definition and in essence, sanctified. It doesn't matter whether the saint be of the OT or the NT. To be a saint, one MUST be "set apart" (i.e., sanctified) by the ONLY one who can do such a work: the Holy Spirit.
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You made no attempt to prove this assertion from Scripture and yet I offer verses for all my doctrines. I have shown from Scripture that Holy Spirit sanctification is strictly a NT doctrine and could not occur in the OT era before Jesus Christ had paid the redemption price for our sins. The Holy Spirit cannot dwell where sin is and it took the blood to wash the sin away.

The Lord Jesus Christ did not say that nicodemas must be born again to be justified but that he must be born again to perceive or to enter the KINGDOM. It is possible, and yea, was the case that OT believers were justified by faith but were not in the kingdom of God which at the time of this conversation was still preached as being "at hand".

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the KINGDOM OF GOD.
The Spirit was not given until Acts 2.

Lu 7:28 For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.

No it isn't. I have not made the case that Adam was not called the son of God or that Jesus Christ was not called the son of God, but I have made the case that no man between them were ever called the son of God. I have been clear on that. That which was common to them both is that both were made in the image of God! The saints of God today who have the Spirit are predestined to be in that image Ro 8:29! Neither have I made the case that OT believers were not justified by their faith. Ro 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Neither is anyone in the OT sanctified by the Spirit and the case can be made that Aaron is the only OT believer to be called a saint and of the 37 times the term is used in the OT it is in the context of prophecy, most often being used in Psalms.