Abigail, I am sorry if I was not clear.

On 1 Peter 3:21, Matthew Henry says "I. What he means by saving baptism; not the outward ceremony of washing with water, but it is that baptism wherein there is a faithful answer of a resolved good conscience."

Further down he say "The external participation of baptism will save no man without an answerable good conscience of conversation. There must be the answer of a good conscience towards God."

I note that some churches such as RC, Anglican, and Lutheran call Water Baptism a Sacrament while other Protestant churches refer to it as an Ordinance. I believe the difference is those who refer to it as a sacrament believe the rite has certain power to make the individual a child of God or a member of the christian church. Those who call it an ordinance believe it is more symbolic of the new birth.

Fellow Saint,

You said "Are you implying Spirit baptism is insufficient to remove filth of the flesh, provided this filth means sin, or are you implying water baptism is for removing dirt and debris from the body?"

"Verses are not to be separated and isolated from the entire Scripture."

Quite true. Then why do you do that?

1 Peter 3:21 is referring to Baptism of the Spirit, not the rite of water baptism. It clearly says "not the putting away of the filth of the flesh". In other words the baptism referred to is not the washing off of dirt from the body by water. That only symbolizes the baptism of the Spirit. The Baptism of the Spirit takes place at the moment a person believes.

"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit." 1 Cor.12:13

It says all are baptized by the Spirit. This is not something that is contingent upon being dipped or sprinkled, but happens at the moment the new birth takes place.

"The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit." John 3:8

You said "2)Baptism is symbolic of the death of our old nature, and buried and resurrected with Christ." Yes the key word is symbolic.

"Yes, I believe baptism is necessary for salvation because Jesus said it is."

Mar 16:16 "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." Notice the emphasis is on believing. Also notice it says "he that believeth not shall be damned". Notice it does not say he that believeth not or is not baptized shall be damned. Why doesn't it say so if that is the case?

Thanks for the reply. I plan to continuing studying the subject. I am pleased you are not a hyper and you believe in evangelism.

I do believe we are called to preach the gospel or witness and urge others to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and follow Him. I have no problem with the words "receive Christ", or "accept Christ" and see them as synonymous for "believe in Christ".

Lurker,

Thank you for that info. I will study those references you gave.

When you say they were already the children of God, could this be collectively? I understand that the people of God,Israel, were chosen by God, but wasn't each individual still required to love and obey the Lord and follow Him? Was it still up to each individual to decide whom he would serve as Joshua said?

How could those who chose to follow other Gods (idols) and not worship the true God be considered as children of God? This seems kind of strange. Collectively yes if they collectively served the true God, but individually, I'm not so sure.

From what you are saying, it doesn't matter whether some worshipped the idols of the heathen and did not follow the true God; they were still all children of God, including those who may have decided to worship the idols of the heathen and did not repent.

I think there is some confusion in this which we will have to look further into.

I am not disputing the five points of Calvinism, but what do you think of people who indicate they have chosen to follow the Lord as recorded in Joshua?

When Joshua addressed the people he said, "And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord." Joshua 24:15

Further down Joshua says, "And Joshua said unto the people, Ye are witnesses against yourselves that ye have chosen you the Lord, to serve him. And they said, We are witnesses." Joshua 24:22

Would this be what is referred to as "decisional theology"? What would be the difference between what is recorded in these verses and today when someone preaches to a non-believer and the non-believer responds by accepting Christ?

Is it true that hyper-Calvinists reject decisional theology and do not believe unbelievers should be exhorted to repent and believe on or receive Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour? Are you a hyper-Calvinist?

Further to what you said, I think alcohol can be deadly for those who may be addicted but don't know it. Many drinkers probably don't think they are addicted until their personal life is harmed and they try to quit.

Also a person's personal circumstances may change in a way which causes them to drink to try to find comfort. This will lead nowhere but to greater harm to themselves and those around them. The easiest way to stay out of trouble with liquor is to never start or avoid it altogether.

He has a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

For he being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish his own rightousness, has not submitted himself unto the righteousness of God.

I was just quoting an interesting article demonstrating the apostate nature of the WCC. The opening of the WCC included the aboriginal people conducting a purification ceremony which was entirely heathen in nature.

"We believe it is enough to report on the abominable ideas of syncretism and universalism which were supported there--the heresy that there is some light and salvation in heathen religions. This has been a trademark of the World Council for years, but its syncretistic emphasis grows bolder with time."

While we need to vote for Godly men to run our countries, we need not try to build a theocracy. To try to build God's kingdom on earth through political means has been a seductive temptation for many, but God's Word calls believers to spread the Gospel of salvation by faith in Jesus Christ.

"And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." Mark 16:15,16

"Aboriginal men girded in loincloths and feathers, their bodies painted in tribal decoration, danced around an altar and beat drums in a traditional purification ceremony that opened the Seventh Assembly of the World Council of Churches here February 7"

For more on this:

You said "we must admit that when one considers the hundreds upon hundreds of millions of Muslims in the world, the troublemakers are really a minority."

Eighteen muslim terrorist suspects were arrested in Canada last year, allegedly acquiring or planning to acquire explosives and planning to blow up the Canadian parliament buildings, a major CBC building in Toronto, and seize the Prime Minister and behead him.

The Canadian Broadcasting Corporation (CBC) TV reported on the National news a poll taken by Environics that said 12% of Muslim Canadians said the alleged terrorist plot was justified!!

12% means several hundred thousand Muslims in Canada believe terrorism is justified. What would be the percentage in other Muslim countries such as in Africa, the middle east, and southeast Asia? This would translate to millions of people.

Perhaps you are not aware of what the Koran teaches and that Islamic extremists are known to be working to inculcate and intimidate moderate Muslims with their extremist ideology.

I think if it were possible to know what is in the closet of all people, even including political candidates for the presidency, you would find they have all sinned in various ways in there lifetime.

Don't you think enforced celebacy is unbiblical and therefore wrong?

I came across this Lutheran article on another website:

May I reply in the limited number of words allowed here, not as a Calvinist, as I don't claim to be one, but as a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ.

"Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that you should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you." John 15:16

This verse shows Jesus does the choosing.

Abigail asks "how do they know they are chosen?"

There are many verses which touch on this. Here are a couple:

"Hereby know we that we dwell in him and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit." 1 John 4:13

We have the sure promises of God's Word that cannot fail. "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." Romans 10:13

Abigail also asks "how do you go about receiving salvation—or coming to the knowledge of your salvation--or do you ever know?"