SteveR wrote:
4/6/13 8:08 AM
Im outside the Presbyterian and Baptist Worlds...

SteveR wrote:
4/6/13 6:56 PM
You misunderstand the Reformed position, WE MAKE no such significant claims

He is Reformed but not a Presbyterian?

Does he mean he holds to reformed theology but is not a Presbyterian?

John Yurich USA wrote:
A homosexual can't be forgiven of their sin unless thy repent and renounce homosexuality.

I believe JY you previously said that confession was all that was necessary because the Lord is bound to forgive, even presumptuous sins that you plan, carry out and then confess!

Lurker wrote:
I listened to Pastor Donnelly's sermon and was going to comment on a couple points but decided to forego. Don't have the fire I used to.
That said, what he preached is baptismal regeneration in disguise. He claims baptism (after the pattern of OT circumcision of the flesh) apprehends the covenant blessings of God.
However, to be blessed of God is to be free from the curse (the law which circumcision of the flesh enjoins to). The only way to be free from the curse, in th NC age, is to be in the One who took the curse (which was in His flesh) out of the way, nailing the debt of it to the cross. The only way to be "in Christ" is by means of the effectual gospel call (Christ crucified) aka the power of God unto salvation (from the curse aka God's wrath). No amount of water (sprinkled, poured or immersed) will ever accomplish what the divinely ordained means of the gospel will.
Why people eat this spoon fed tradition up when they can be taught by the Master is beyond me. I know you know this as well as I do, John, but I guess I needed to vent a little. I suppose it's another example of the difference between Puritans and Pilgrims.
I'm off my soapbox.

In answer to his mindless last post:

1. First we were discussing covenant baptism. His present argument in that context is irrelevant, despite his protestations, because in an effort to arrive at the truth about Baptism the only Court of Appeal is the Bible!! Of course since he despises the Bible, he cannot understand that.

2. My comment to JY was in direct response to his about obtaining membership in the RCC. There is certainly no intention on my part to connect my comment here to the covenant baptism thread.

Is anyone else finding this liars postings trying?

He seems unable to process information in a logical fashion and every post of his must evidence the true state of his heart which is just full of hatred.

John Yurich USA wrote:
Nobody can convert to the Catholic Church if they support homosexuality and abortion as during the conversion ceremony they are asked if they support abortion and homosexuality. And they have to state that they do not support abortion and homosexuality or their conversion can't be completed.

SteveR wrote:
And who on earth are you?
How can you expect respect when you keep changing monikers like a child's nappy?
If 'enough' critiqued my posts you would call him 'brother' like others you have embraced without knowing who they are.
Please stand up for your comments and answer him and quit playing the harlot.

Titus 3:10
A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject!!

SteveR wrote:
There could be all kinds of unsaved people involved in Baptisms(forget the little ones and servants from those BIBLICAL examples that were baptized), how about unsaved Baptist Pastors doing the Baptizing at your Church?

The rest of your post begs the question, when you're supposed to be proving the point!

SteveR wrote:
JY was probably referencing the very Biblical baptizing of entire households(wife, children, servants)
Acts 16:14 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.
Acts 16:15 And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us.
1 Corinthians 1:16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas

John Yurich USA wrote:
I have quoted from the Bible on here a lot. If Baptism does not impart salvation then to believe that Infant and Adult Baptism is just a dedication of infants and adults to Jesus is logical.

Oh, I see how this works, so long as something does not impinge on ones salvation one can just decide what it means without having to worry what the bible really means.

John Yurich USA wrote:
Martin Luther was Born Again and yet he was guided by the Holy Spirit to retain Infant Baptism in the Lutheran Church. I still believe in Infant Baptism but I believe Infant Baptism is just a dedication of infants to Jesus and does not impart salvation. Just as Adult Baptism is just a dedication of adults to Jesus.

Observer wrote:
..."Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is CHRIST"!!
...

All the promises relate to Christ and all blessings under this covenant are secured by Christ for the elect - those who will come to participate in Christ by faith.

Abraham became a child of God by faith, and all who are his spiritual seed (the true children of Abraham) will also become children of God by faith in Christ.

This is the ONLY covenant that exists and matters.

No one can sire a godly child!

No one can convert his child!

No one can secure spiritual privileges for their children by birth. All are sinners and all must come the same way!

SteveR's ignorant assessment (recurring theme with all his posts) that unsaved children in churches which don't accept the Presby covenantal view are somehow abused is just stupid beyond belief. How he thinks he is going to gain anything by such stupid comments is beyond me.

Mike wrote:
Chris, has the doctor told you of possible side effects of Wellbutrin? I only ask because sometimes a side effect of antidepressants is depression. Be self aware of changes. Has the doc determined you have a physical/biological condition causing the depression, for which the medication will provide reduction? Or is it something to relieve symptoms only? You need to know if there is a cause needing the treatment. If there cannot be determined that there is a cause, you may need to conclude you are somehow doing it to yourself. Remember depression is a response to something. Is your family situation contributing? Are you having difficulty reconciling with the possibility that there are some things you can't control? Depression is often cyclical, we feel bad and get depressed, which makes us feel bad, etc. The cycle needs be broken. Praying for you. Read John UK's post again

Medication should be used in extreme circumstances only. Remember wordlings, including doctors, all believe that most ailments are merely chemical imbalances and will all too readily dish out the Meds!

If the Lord's supper is the only enduring ordinance then why does the apostle Paul refer in the above verse to "ordinances"?

Baptists have always maintained that there are 2 ordinances; Baptism and the Lord's supper.

J4, I have been reading some of your posting history. Seems like you have a penchant for novelty. Why is that I wonder?

______________________________________

Chris,

You will see from the verse I quoted that the apostle praised the Corinthians for keeping the ordinances as he delivered them.

No, this is about whether water baptism is a NT ordinance.

John for JESUS wrote:
I don't believe water baptism is essential to making disciples either. I think I am being upfront. For the sake of not coming across as Catholic, I will say "ordinance" of communion from now on. Though it is God who baptises, He utilized the laying on of hands by the Apostles to perform the baptism.

There are plenty of examples of the Spirit being poured out without the Apostles laying hands, so your idea that this only happened with the laying on of their hands is nonsense. And what is supposed to happen now that the Apostles are no longer around? Or do you believe on a succession of Apostles to the present time?

Also why in the explanation of this Baptism is the imagery of death and resurrection used if the rite was no longer around? The Spirit baptism is already referred to as a circumcision not made with hands!

John for JESUS wrote:
JOHN UK...Why would Jesus be talking about water baptism and not the more important baptism of the Holy Spirit. Why would He not have also said to practice communion if He was only talking about a water baptism sacrament?

The commission is about making disciples, not what should happen after they became disciples. Unless you think that communion is essential to making a disciple!

As for why this is water baptism, that is how the apostles clearly understood it, and how could Christ ask the disciples to do something out of their power? If have evidence to the contrary why not produce it instead of always just suggesting theories.

Clearly you have an agenda. So why not just be upfront and present all the evidence you have.

This argument has been gone over many times in the past in an attempt to try and lay aside an ordinance of Christ!

BTW it's an ordinance NOT a sacrament!

John UK

John for JESUS wrote:
I'd like to point to another baptism. Baptism in the Holy Spirit. Could it be that water baptism was just a type of true baptism? If John the Baptist baptism is over, why still use it?

SteveR wrote:
....in most intelligent Christian circles this debate is always a draw..
Its supposed to give you humility, not pride

And look how he starts.." in most intelligent Christian circles.." How insulting is that?!

Contra wrote:
Everybody knows that Covenant baptism and the sign of the covenant, now baptism, and its replacing circumcision is entirely Biblical. And that Baptists ignore the teaching of Genesis 17 in that they accept "Abraham" - yet reject (his) "seed" teaching

John UK wrote:
Sounds to me like a new debate is about to break loose.
Or should I say, an old debate rehashed.
Covenant Baptism v Believer's Baptism

contra wrote:
Baptists for example have stitched their theology together to validate their immersion believers baptism by taking parts of Scripture and leaving out others.

I would scurry away quickly if I were you or if you decide to stay, you had better know your bible pretty well! Ignorants are very quickly exposed on the issue of Baptism.