Thank you for the detailed response. I think you are bringing out some points of Romanism that we have not discussed in any depth.

You said "As Catholics we believe that we can experience this Grace through the Sacraments, but that is not all."

"God is supernaturally the primary mover in the Sacraments."

I understand that the Roman Church teaches that the Sacrament of Baptism is normally necessary to become a christian. Is this "Supernatural Grace" you speak about also referred to as "Sacramental Grace"?

It would appear that the priest who administers the Sacrament has some kind of supernatural or magical power when he adminsters this Sacrament. Would you agree?

Would you agree that the Roman Church's "Sacramental Grace" which the recipient receives is a different kind of grace than the grace spoken of Ephesians Chap.1 vs.7-10?

Were you aware Protestant theology defines "grace" as God's unmerited love and boundless goodness to guilty, vile, helpless creatures?

The word "grace" in its proper sense therefore means the free and undeserved favor of God exercised toward the undeserving, toward sinners. We see this brought out in Ephesians Chap1 vs 1-7.

I commend you and thank you for the thoughtful reply.

You said "I believe that no man can come to God, make an act of faith, do a good work, or anything of the like without the Supernatural Grace of God enabling him to do so. I also believe that there is nothing I can do to merit Salvation. I rest solely on the Grace of God in the perfect sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross for my sins."

I am interested in knowing more about this subject. But the question remains, what is this "Grace" which I noticed you capitalized? I noticed you called it "Supernatural" and again capitalized the word.

Could you explain what you believe this "Supernatural Grace" is?

I ask you again to explain what grace is and what you mean by grace alone.

Please don't just try to refer to a link. You should be able to put it in your own words. If you can't, then maybe you don't know what it is you are saying.

I met a Catholic once who told me he doesn't worry about beliefs because the priest does it all for him. He just goes to mass and the priest takes care of the rest. Sounds to me like a copout. It is a poor excuse. God will hold all men accountable for what they believe.

"But without faith it is impossible to please him; for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." Hebrews Ch11 vs6.

The WCF is silent on biblical prophecy. Biblical prophecy was not a high point in the churches of the Reformation in general and is of no interest to the Reformed churches.

One exception was in a Bible study we attended in a Presbyterian church in the 1980s where the Pastor was very knowledgeable on prophecy and taught a series on the Book of Daniel. It was fascinating.

"No. I quit working for money in 1970 to forsake all to follow the Lord Jesus Christ. I have been trusting the Lord for my needs since that time. He has never failed."

This sounds familiar.

I met someone the other day from the Anglican church who said something very similar. She said biblical doctrine is not the main issue; she said the main focus in the church should be love. Everyone must love each other and not worry about doctrine.

Is it true this has become the gospel of the ecumenical mainline churches now? Don't judge false doctrine, and don't judge sin (homosexuality for example)?

Can people believe the true gospel that Jesus made a complete atonement for them and that there is no more offering for sin, and still remain in the RC church as a practicing RC, where the gospel of Jesus Christ is unknown? According to the ecumenicals, the answer is yes.

Faithful, bible-believing christians are condemned as being hypocritical and judgmental. Hmmmmm.

"But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

You said "we believe in Salvation by Grace and Grace alone"

I met a woman today who probably has a similar sentiment. She said Bible doctrine is not important; what counts is how we love each other. We should all throw away our Bibles and just love each other; then everything will be fine. (and presumably, according to her, we will all get to heaven).

Biblical truth is not like that. Why did Jesus say "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household."? Matthew 10:34-36

"And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world." 1 John 4:3

Remember "Open rebuke is better than secret love. Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful." Proverbs 27:5-6

Beward of the scribes and pharisees. Sound doctrine is important. When you receive a complement from Abigail, you should be extremely concerned and wary. She is trying to divide you off from Bible believers. She doesn't believe in sound doctrine except what she claims has been revealed to her personally. The great confessions or renouned Bible teachers mean nothing to her.
She has proven herself a heretic repeatedly on here in spite of the longsuffering saints who have tried to show her the correct interpretation of Scriptures on salvation, justification, imputed righteousness, eternal security, and the tongues speaking, but she will not listen. She still holds to salvation by works and loss of salvation, similar to Roman Catholicism.

The correct doctrines as taught in the great confessions such as the WCF are of extreme importance to guard against such heresies.

"And they continued stedfastly in the apostles doctrine and fellowship,..." Acts 2:42

"But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you." Romans 6:17

"5. the Catholic belief is that all those who have eternal life in Jesus Christ do not die, but "fall asleep" as the Bible says."

I thought a Catholic cannot know if he has eternal life. Isn't that the sin of presumption? What about purgatory? Doesn't everyone (who is not going to hell) have to go to purgatory for cleansing of their sins which have not been satisfied for?

Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;"

Christian Raas wrote:
I believe in the gift of unknown tongues as much as in all other gifts of the Holy Spirit of God.

"Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away." 1 Cor 13:8

If you look at Acts Ch2 you will see that the real tongues was an actual earthly language that could be understood by someone. So when Paul said forbid not speaking in tongues, he was talking about the real tongues or earthly languages in the Apostolic days.

If you would like to look into this further check out the sermons on tongues at:

http://www.sermonaudio.com/search.asp?currSection=sermonstopic&keyworddesc=Tongues%2C+Speaking&keyword=tongue

There is also a good book called "The Pied Piper of the Pentecostal Movement" by Wilson Ewin (1986)
You may be able to locate this book through the following website:

"If you have faith in Him, you will believe the words He spoke, and you will obey Him. In modern churches, the words of Jesus Christ are relegated to utter babble—meaningless, worthless."

You are generalizing here. How do you know all Protestant churches are apostate? Have you been to all of them? Or is just the ones that don't accept your particular interpretation of the Bible that makes them apostate?

I disagree with what you have been preaching on here. I think you're the one in error and needs to change.

Study Romans and Galatians with an open mind seeking the truth and you might learn what imputed righteousness is. Works are evidence of faith that saves as James teaches. Until you change, I will have to conclude you are teaching heresy.

This endless back and forth of quoting Scriptures does nothing. You reject the truths brought out in the Reformation and taught by the most learned theologians and Bible commentators.

You will have to admit the fruit of your doctrine is no assurance of salvation. It is a man-made religion and depends on the efforts of man to save himself.

You do not understand imputed righteousness or salvation by grace through faith.

You said "James - "Faith without works is dead." I said, if you want living faith, there must also be works."

You are correct. Faith without works is dead. However, James was not saying that it is the works that saves a person. The point that James is making is that true faith is evidenced by works and that is what you said in the above quote. We can at least agree on that particular point.

In order to find out what Jesus and the Apostles taught as the way of salvation, we need to look in the rest of the Bible.

The Apostle Paul pointed to Abraham's salvation as an example of the New Testament plan of salvation.

The New American Bible, Saint Joseph Edition (RC Bible) says concerning Abraham:

"What, then, shall we say of Abraham, our ancestor according to the flesh?

Certainly if Abraham was justified by his deeds he has grounds for boasting, but not in God's view; for what does Scripture say? 'Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as justice.'

Now, when a man works, his wages are not regarded as a favor but as his due. But when a man does nothing, yet believes in him who justifies the sinful, his faith is credited as justice." Romans 4:1-5

You said "To insist on "faith alone" is unbiblical, as it is never taught in the Bible. If you want living faith, there must also be works!"

Works will never save you. If you believe that lie from the pit of hell, you will spend eternity in hell.

The Bible teaches in numerous places that salvation is contingent on believing in Jesus Christ. If you reject that, you are condemning yourself.

It is true that a christian's faith in Jesus Christ and His finished work on the cross is demonstrated to the world by works, but it is only God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ that saves a sinner.

"For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted." Luke 14:11

"Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." Matt.5:3