For God So Loved the World wrote:
Sorry, Minnow, you already had your chance and you blew it. Try giving someone else a chance.

Casob wrote:
It was then given to the people of God, the nation of Israel. It was never a requirement for the gentiles unless a gentile wanted to be included in the covenant promises of God....

14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law....

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts....

In the above quoted verses all Paul does is sets nature in opposition to written law.

Thus the mortal is capable of distinguishing between right and wrong.
Otherwise written law would be meaningless.

Paul here talks of the knowledge of law - NOT the power to fulfil the law.
Thus by nature man has some seeds of the law in them.
This chapter Romans 2 is about sin and the judgment of God which no nation Jew or Gentile can escape from.

Casob Beware
OT = 2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it"(Deut)

NT = 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life" (Rev)

Faithful Remnant wrote:
Minnow, the Pentecostal Holiness Church featured in this article does not believe in the manner you stated. You have it confused with the United Pentecostal Church and related groups.

Oh come on Rowan you know better than most that the new god of Britain is Mammon. After all you and your Liberal bishops and vicars have spent decades getting rid of Scripture authority from the nation.

Had you remembered the Bible it would have stated

"For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows." 1Tim 6:10.

Oh sorry I forgot you guys have written your own bible haven't you.

"The rich man's wealth is his strong city: the destruction of the poor is their poverty" Prov 10:15.

From Rom 8:28-29

This foreknown and predestinated group are conformed to the image of His Son. Again we observe divine power at work which no human input is involved or considered, nor is any contribution stipulated. The predestinated chosen group are adopted to be brothers of Jesus. This is the elect people of God who alone are justified before God, by the imputed righteousness of Christ. The promise continues that they will be glorified. Thus all is UNConditional.

The hypothesis that between foreknowing/predestinating and glorifying, that God needs the creatures cooperation, permission, input, whatever to control the entire divine process by first overcoming his sinful estate, to make the correct spiritual decision, and initiate divine action, is touching upon blasphemy.

Ro 9:21 Hath not the POTTER power over the clay, of the same lump to make ONE vessel unto honour, and ANOTHER unto dishonour?
22 What if GOD, willing to shew his WRATH, and to make HIS power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to DESTRUCTION:
23 And that HE might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which HE HAD AFORE PREPARED unto glory"

Rom 8:28-30
28. “The Called” according to His Purpose.
29. He Foreknew.
He Predestinated.
He conformed to Christ.
He made the elect a brother to Christ.
30. He Predestinated.
He Called.
He Justified.
He Glorified.
The verses illustrate and demonstrate how GOD has carried out ALL that is necessary for His Elect to bring them to salvation. They provide the order of salvation. In John 16:13 Jesus teaches that Truth can only be perceived by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Therefore only a person specifically chosen by God IN Christ can comprehend the precise facts leading to salvation in the Word of God.
The verses teach that the elect are “The Called”(28) according to the purpose of God. Previously v11 has taught that the sinner must first be “brought to life” and that only the Holy Spirit can achieve this. There is no human faculty which can initiate the process unto salvation without divine help. God records that He foreknew (29) “the called” and that He predestinated them. This is repeated at v30.

Robert wrote:
Universal resurrection that is, not universal atonement.
Thanks.

Yes clearly the "end result" is different on the resurrection of the two groups viz the just and the unjust.
The event itself appears to be "one."
I see the 1Cor 15 as referring specifically to resurrection in Christ. Paul teaching a specific group about "their" resurrection.

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
= Are ALL to be raised incorrupt??? "Universalism"???

43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
= Are ALL raised in power???

44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
= Are ALL raised in the spiritual body of IN Christ which Paul is here teaching.

This is about resurrection "IN" Christ.

Nobody denies there will be a resurrection of the unjust.
Jo 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

BUT
Phil 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Robert wrote:
Just a quick point to whomever it may concern.1st Cor 15 has nothing to do with salvation, or the offer of salvation, but universal resurrection.
Please do not twist the scriptures.
CONTEXT
CONTEXT
CONTEXT

These and other verses refer to the resurrection of Christ's own sheep not all and sundry. The intro verses 1-11 refer to Christ's resurrection and subsequent verse relate to Christ and the resurrection of the elect.

For God So Loved the World wrote:
1] Lone Wolf is correct. I know how to play the verse-launching game too. Unfortunately that will get us nowwhere.

2] I am not sure why you are getting upset at Lone Wolf. After all, he is own your "team" and he is only trying to help you.

3] Uncondtional election states that God arbitrarily elects a few to obtain eternal life

4] Since Minnow obviously cannot present his case,

1] "verse launching" as you call it does have a point, BUT of course the Holy Spirit must be in the heart to guide us into the Truth of the verse. That obviously is not always the case.

2] Alias "Lone Wolf" is not on my team as you put it. He has already pointed that out. As Spurgeon has stated Calvinism IS the Gospel, I know that to be true. I therefore observe the "fruit" of others to identify whom has been guided into the Truth.

3] Rom 8:28-30 (among others) Preserves and teaches the doctrine of UNConditional Election. Can you perceive that Truth?
These verses also provide the Reformed Ordo Salutis, beginning with "Election" therefore with God alone.

Considering the state of religion in the west and that all denominations have been in decline for decades now - it is no surprise really.

The Lone Wolf wrote:
With all due respect, whether or not one can perceive the truth of scripture is irrevelent, if you cannot defend your position from scripture, then the credibility of your argument is waning.

I believe that this tactic of yours - applied from the Reformed position is counterfeit, prevarication and disingenuous. You are not a Calvinist.
Whether I respond in the Reformed polemic or not, you will continue to negate what I say. For your own reasons you deliberately try to mislead, by pretext and dissembling. Had you been a True Calvinist then you would be able to perceive the facts I provided. Whether you do or not is irrelevant to your scheme. Satan is known for his cunning deceit, hiding behind a false truth. I wonder what other pseudonym you use?

1] They don't believe in the Trinity.
2] They teach Christ was not a Pre-existant divine being.
3] They teach that Christ was a flesh body in whom God dwelled. (must have prayed to himself then)
4] They teach that unless you are baptised by their method - then you are not really saved.

Casob wrote:
But consider these verses and ask yourself why the disciples got a rebuke from God for not believing in the resurrection if he gives faith to believe it at his own predetermined time.
Mr 16:11 And they,(them that had been with him) when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not.
Mr 16:13 And they went and told [it] unto the residue: neither believed they them.
Mr 16:14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.

The Holy Spirit Brings and provides the TRUE Saving Faith.
It is NOT a human faculty.

Christ's Promise......

Yamil wrote:
verses on election, now can you please provide one(just one at least) that actually deal with the truth of unconditional election?

But this is the way of it, history records that Pelagians, Semi-P's, Arminians, Antinomians, Socinians and all other Roman Catholic cults! - Are not Reformed Church because they read the Bible BUT do not get the Truth.

Election is UNConditional as stated for example....

Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed."

"as many as were ordained to eternal life believed."

Now that statement is simple for the Christian. But Yamil will not receive it, just as his papist brothers never have.

The group identified were "ordained"
Who does the "ordaining in the true Church? God of course!

What did God "ordain" them to?
a] "eternal life" = Salvation.
b] They "believed" = Gift of Faith.
c] Note the "as many as were" part - Clearly this separates the True Christian Believer from those NOT ORDAINED! - By God. Viz NOT Elect.

NO Condition is presented in Scripture.
THUS
*UNConditional* Choosing by God Alone.

Mike wrote:
Why should he? Has he not been ordained by God for this very purpose?

"It is a never-ending carnival of human misery. A large number of families now consist of children being brought up by mothers who have children by a number of different fathers, none of whom take any part in their lives or support or upbringing. These are not isolated, one-off cases. They are part of the stock-in-trade of the family courts"

Great!! Someone in high position is broadcasting the truth and one result of spiritual and moral decline.

Trouble is "Who Cares?"